I am interested in finding out about Sentinel watches. I have one which belonged to my grandfather, so would be particularly interested in any information on that one. I have attached a picture below. The face reads "Sentinel Shock-Proof Incabloc" then "Swiss Made" down the very bottom. The back has "Anti-Magnetic Water Resistant Dust Proof" written in a circle around the back. There is no mention of jewels. The case appears to be chrome plated.
Sentinel Watches
roo
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I am interested in finding out about Sentinel watches. I have one which belonged to my grandfather, so would be particularly interested in any information on that one. I have attached a picture below. The face reads "Sentinel Shock-Proof Incabloc" then "Swiss Made" down the very bottom. The back has "Anti-Magnetic Water Resistant Dust Proof" written in a circle around the back. There is no mention of jewels. The case appears to be chrome plated.
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I found this "Sentinel," which looks to be made by the Charlin Watch Company (or at least the movement).roo said:
Here's a 1953 Christmas ad for Sentinel watches:
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Hi -
My initial reaction is that it's one of those old Swiss companies, but then again, Google is your friend. There *was* apparently a Sentinel Watch Company in the US, but I don't have any information beyond this link.
What put me off right off the bat is that the lettering doesn't look, well, refined, and it's opticallly a mess: the word "Sentinel" on the face seems to grow smaller from left to right, and neither "SHOCK-PROOF" nor "INCABLOC" are centered, which initially led me to think of someone having perhaps labelled it themselves (I've come across some very poor pocketwatches that some enterprising watchmaker put his own label on dating back to the 1920s or so, where the labelling effort really detracts from what otherwise might have been a fairly nice vintage piece.
My guess - and it really isn't anything more than that - is that there was a Sentinel Watch Company in the US from, say, the 1920s through the 1950s, but not later than around 1970. From the watch design, I'd put the design from the end of the 1950s to the early 1960s, almost definitely a Swiss watch made for US consumption. To be quite honest, the face design reminds me of a Pierce from the same time period. A lot, as a matter of fact, but that may be more the hand design - baton with pointer extension that are exquisitely designed: the minute hand goes to just short of the minutes, and the hours hand covers roughly 1/3rd of the hours numerals, giving the face a really nice design that wouldn't have been found in something quick-and-dirty done by a watchmaker seeking to make a quick buck.
Any chance of seeing the calibre inside? If you don't know how to open it, the please don't: but do get it to a watchmaker to have it cleaned and oiled and otherwise taken care of. The worst thing that can happen to a vintage watch is to have it completely neglected for many, many years and then have it used without being properly cleaned and oiled. Given that this was you grandfather's watch, it should have significant sentimental value for you. So get it to a good watchmaker and let us know what he/she says about the calibre inside. That could really help in identifying what the pedigree might be. You'd be surprised sometimes what's inside some of these watches!
Enjoy that watch! Certainly unique, even if not easily identifiable...
JohnF
My initial reaction is that it's one of those old Swiss companies, but then again, Google is your friend. There *was* apparently a Sentinel Watch Company in the US, but I don't have any information beyond this link.
What put me off right off the bat is that the lettering doesn't look, well, refined, and it's opticallly a mess: the word "Sentinel" on the face seems to grow smaller from left to right, and neither "SHOCK-PROOF" nor "INCABLOC" are centered, which initially led me to think of someone having perhaps labelled it themselves (I've come across some very poor pocketwatches that some enterprising watchmaker put his own label on dating back to the 1920s or so, where the labelling effort really detracts from what otherwise might have been a fairly nice vintage piece.
My guess - and it really isn't anything more than that - is that there was a Sentinel Watch Company in the US from, say, the 1920s through the 1950s, but not later than around 1970. From the watch design, I'd put the design from the end of the 1950s to the early 1960s, almost definitely a Swiss watch made for US consumption. To be quite honest, the face design reminds me of a Pierce from the same time period. A lot, as a matter of fact, but that may be more the hand design - baton with pointer extension that are exquisitely designed: the minute hand goes to just short of the minutes, and the hours hand covers roughly 1/3rd of the hours numerals, giving the face a really nice design that wouldn't have been found in something quick-and-dirty done by a watchmaker seeking to make a quick buck.
Any chance of seeing the calibre inside? If you don't know how to open it, the please don't: but do get it to a watchmaker to have it cleaned and oiled and otherwise taken care of. The worst thing that can happen to a vintage watch is to have it completely neglected for many, many years and then have it used without being properly cleaned and oiled. Given that this was you grandfather's watch, it should have significant sentimental value for you. So get it to a good watchmaker and let us know what he/she says about the calibre inside. That could really help in identifying what the pedigree might be. You'd be surprised sometimes what's inside some of these watches!
Enjoy that watch! Certainly unique, even if not easily identifiable...
JohnF
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Hey, John. I did a couple Googles:JohnF said:
Sentinel +incabloc
Sentinel +"17 jewels"
After I found the Charlin reference, I think I did some similar searches using that name. I had to weed through a lot of junk, though, to get those few photos. Never did see any discussion about Sentinel or Charlin. As you know, after a while it becomes a quest to ferret out everything on the web that relates.
Thank you for the interesting information. It shows that knowing the right keywords really helps in Google. I tried with nothing but junk.
I opened the back and the internals are shown in the photo. There is no identification marking that I can see, but I don't know the places to look. Perhaps someone can identify it, or instruct me what to check to help identify it.
I have had this watch for a while, and it has been serviced twice. I only use it as a dress watch, so it does not see a lot of use. It is only recently that I stumbled across the watch forums and so decided to find out a little more about it.
Interestingly I have a second almost identical watch which I picked up in a flea market for the equivalent of US$1.50 some years ago. I guess part of the reason for chasing the details is to decide if I spend the money to have the second one serviced, and possibly use it as a daily watch. I quite like the manual wind mechanical watches, but may be better off getting one of the less expensive new automatics for daily use.
I opened the back and the internals are shown in the photo. There is no identification marking that I can see, but I don't know the places to look. Perhaps someone can identify it, or instruct me what to check to help identify it.
I have had this watch for a while, and it has been serviced twice. I only use it as a dress watch, so it does not see a lot of use. It is only recently that I stumbled across the watch forums and so decided to find out a little more about it.
Interestingly I have a second almost identical watch which I picked up in a flea market for the equivalent of US$1.50 some years ago. I guess part of the reason for chasing the details is to decide if I spend the money to have the second one serviced, and possibly use it as a daily watch. I quite like the manual wind mechanical watches, but may be better off getting one of the less expensive new automatics for daily use.
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I agree, Roo, no identification. Looks like you may be looking at a more major servicing next time, as the regulator index (pointer) appears to be maxed out to one side.roo said:
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Hi -
Hmmm.
If you take a closer look at the area in and around the balance wheel - the part that you see rotating back and forth at the 6 o'clock position in your photo - you can usually find some cryptic markings, like a small shield with an "AS" in it and a number next to it, such as "96", for example, which marks it as an Anton Schild ebauche model 96 (not that this is one...). But this can be quite small and difficult to ID.
And I have to agree with pacifichrono: the microadjustment (down at the 6 over the balance wheel with the + and - and the index markings) has been turned all the way to plus, indicating that the watch is running slow (you move this to plus to make the watch run faster). This is indicative of a watch that needs to be disassembled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled, with particular emphasis on the balance wheel assembly, which is showing the need to have the geometry of the balance wheel adjusted. There are two ways of adjusting this: either by changing the particular angle of the main attachment of the balance spring (a difficult task without the right tools and tedious otherwise) or by changing the length of the hairspring of the balance wheel, which changes the way the spring controls the balance wheel's oscillation.
In either case, this should be done by a watchmaker.
All things being equal, you should consider that the mechanical watches you show here are fairly efficient and when well regulated very good time keepers. They will probably keep better time than a chinese-made automatic off the shelf; if you can find, however, an automatic with a good Swiss-made ETA 2824-2 or 2896, then by all means go for that for every-day use. It'll save wear and tear on these ones.
JohnF
Hmmm.
If you take a closer look at the area in and around the balance wheel - the part that you see rotating back and forth at the 6 o'clock position in your photo - you can usually find some cryptic markings, like a small shield with an "AS" in it and a number next to it, such as "96", for example, which marks it as an Anton Schild ebauche model 96 (not that this is one...). But this can be quite small and difficult to ID.
And I have to agree with pacifichrono: the microadjustment (down at the 6 over the balance wheel with the + and - and the index markings) has been turned all the way to plus, indicating that the watch is running slow (you move this to plus to make the watch run faster). This is indicative of a watch that needs to be disassembled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled, with particular emphasis on the balance wheel assembly, which is showing the need to have the geometry of the balance wheel adjusted. There are two ways of adjusting this: either by changing the particular angle of the main attachment of the balance spring (a difficult task without the right tools and tedious otherwise) or by changing the length of the hairspring of the balance wheel, which changes the way the spring controls the balance wheel's oscillation.
In either case, this should be done by a watchmaker.
All things being equal, you should consider that the mechanical watches you show here are fairly efficient and when well regulated very good time keepers. They will probably keep better time than a chinese-made automatic off the shelf; if you can find, however, an automatic with a good Swiss-made ETA 2824-2 or 2896, then by all means go for that for every-day use. It'll save wear and tear on these ones.
JohnF
Thank you both once again. I did notice the microadjustment was at maximum, which is interesting as the watch runs fast. It has done so since its last service, but because I use it rarely, it has not been a problem. I guess the watchmaker did this for some reason. It is an un-adjusted movement, so perhaps they regulated in an unfavorable orientation. Perhaps they let the apprentice loose on it. This last service was done by a reputable watch repairer. After the first service some years ago, I had worn the watch regularly for a while, and it kept good time, within 2 seconds per day.
I could not see any markings around the balance wheel area. I will let the watch run down so I can look more closely with the balance wheel stopped.
I could not see any markings around the balance wheel area. I will let the watch run down so I can look more closely with the balance wheel stopped.
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Since you've already had the back off, it's a simple matter to fiddle with the regulator VERY SLIGHTLY to slow it down. Just use a non-metalic instrument (like a plastic toothpick) to carefully nudge the regulator, which is the appendage (with two "studs" on it) opposite to the index marker, in a clock-wise direction. This is an iterative process, but patience will pay off with more accuracy.roo said:
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Hi -
Agree with pacifichrono.
You might want to try this: using a toothpick (the wooden kind is fine as well), recenter the microadjustment. Wind the watch, set to a known accurate time source and let rest with face up over a 24-hour period. After the end of that 24 hours, see how much it is off. Then move it one notch over in the opposite direction of the difference (i.e. if the watch is slow, move it to the plus) and repeat to see what the difference is.
This gives you a metric to see what the isochronism of the watch is, i.e. how much the watch deviates from a known accurate time source on a constant basis. If, for instance, centering the adjustment leads to a deviation of 4 minutes/day slow and by moving it the first index in the direction of + it loses only 3 min/day, you now know that a single index mark is 1 min/day.
Write this down, of course, and when you do take it to your watchmaker, you've done part of his homework.
In any case, you can then start to fine-tune the watch to keep as accurate time as possible, using very slight adjustments until the difference from the known time source is as small as you can make.
And then you've regulated your watch! And you now know what you have to do when it starts not holding the time again...
JohnF
Agree with pacifichrono.
You might want to try this: using a toothpick (the wooden kind is fine as well), recenter the microadjustment. Wind the watch, set to a known accurate time source and let rest with face up over a 24-hour period. After the end of that 24 hours, see how much it is off. Then move it one notch over in the opposite direction of the difference (i.e. if the watch is slow, move it to the plus) and repeat to see what the difference is.
This gives you a metric to see what the isochronism of the watch is, i.e. how much the watch deviates from a known accurate time source on a constant basis. If, for instance, centering the adjustment leads to a deviation of 4 minutes/day slow and by moving it the first index in the direction of + it loses only 3 min/day, you now know that a single index mark is 1 min/day.
Write this down, of course, and when you do take it to your watchmaker, you've done part of his homework.
In any case, you can then start to fine-tune the watch to keep as accurate time as possible, using very slight adjustments until the difference from the known time source is as small as you can make.
And then you've regulated your watch! And you now know what you have to do when it starts not holding the time again...
JohnF
Thank you both once again. I am familiar with adjustment processes, and will do so.
Now that things have stopped moving, I have been able to look more closely in the area around the balance wheel. I have found markings right underneath the balance wheel. It is very hard to get a clear view of the details, but it appears to have an AS inside a shape (I cannot clearly see what the shape is), then underneath that is 12S7, that is a capital letter S (looking through a low power microscope, with some fiddling, I first thought it was an 8, but the loops are not closed, so a capital S).
Hopefully this gives some idea of the movement.
Now that things have stopped moving, I have been able to look more closely in the area around the balance wheel. I have found markings right underneath the balance wheel. It is very hard to get a clear view of the details, but it appears to have an AS inside a shape (I cannot clearly see what the shape is), then underneath that is 12S7, that is a capital letter S (looking through a low power microscope, with some fiddling, I first thought it was an 8, but the loops are not closed, so a capital S).
Hopefully this gives some idea of the movement.
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Hi -
Sure does! AS stands for A. Schild, one of the premier ebauche suppliers (i.e. they build watchworks for others to put in watches) well into the 1960s and 1970s. The company as such was founded in 1896, introduced the first automatic watch calibre in 1926 using the Harwood design, and served as the parent to both the Eterna watch company and ESA, the precursor to todays's ETA ebauche manufacturer. The A.Schild name disappeared in 1979 as ETA was established.
I don't have access right now to the Ranfft listing of calibers so I can't give you more detail, but rest assured that the calibre inside the watch is a) a very solid ebauche with an strong heritage and pedigree and b) any decent watchmaker should be able to do wonders with it, as parts should be fairly easily found or at least well documented.
Not sure about that 12S7: it may well be a 1287, as I am not familiar with any AS works that used a letter in the designation (doesn't mean that there weren't any...) and the lack of a closed 8 may be more a function of the way the stamping of the model designation were carried out (leaving room for metal to expand when stamping it reduces the likelihood of chipping, reducing one potential hazard to the insides of the watch!).
JohnF
PS: I found the calibre, and it's 1287. Here is the link!
Sure does! AS stands for A. Schild, one of the premier ebauche suppliers (i.e. they build watchworks for others to put in watches) well into the 1960s and 1970s. The company as such was founded in 1896, introduced the first automatic watch calibre in 1926 using the Harwood design, and served as the parent to both the Eterna watch company and ESA, the precursor to todays's ETA ebauche manufacturer. The A.Schild name disappeared in 1979 as ETA was established.
I don't have access right now to the Ranfft listing of calibers so I can't give you more detail, but rest assured that the calibre inside the watch is a) a very solid ebauche with an strong heritage and pedigree and b) any decent watchmaker should be able to do wonders with it, as parts should be fairly easily found or at least well documented.
Not sure about that 12S7: it may well be a 1287, as I am not familiar with any AS works that used a letter in the designation (doesn't mean that there weren't any...) and the lack of a closed 8 may be more a function of the way the stamping of the model designation were carried out (leaving room for metal to expand when stamping it reduces the likelihood of chipping, reducing one potential hazard to the insides of the watch!).
JohnF
PS: I found the calibre, and it's 1287. Here is the link!
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WTG, John! You shall forevermore be known as "Super Sleuth!"
Thank you both so much. I had never expected to find out this much about what seemed a relatively unknown maker. To know the watch is based on a solid, readily repairable movement is very good news indeed. I am sure this watch will continue to have a long and useful life with me. Having this extra knowledge of the watch, makes it even more valuable to me. Thank you once again.
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Hi -
The calibre is also 15 jewels, which dates it to the earlier period of the As1287: the watchworks is more likely to have been made in the 1940s/1950s than in the 1960s. When it was put into the case is another question entirely, since it was not uncommon for unsold ebauches to be discounted after a set number of years simply to get rid of the inventory, and this means that it could have been put into the watch at a much later date.
Glad we could help, and that you have a better feel for the value of the watch as a result.
JohnF
The calibre is also 15 jewels, which dates it to the earlier period of the As1287: the watchworks is more likely to have been made in the 1940s/1950s than in the 1960s. When it was put into the case is another question entirely, since it was not uncommon for unsold ebauches to be discounted after a set number of years simply to get rid of the inventory, and this means that it could have been put into the watch at a much later date.
Glad we could help, and that you have a better feel for the value of the watch as a result.
JohnF
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