Can you recoment a budget alternative to Bergeon watch tools

marcone · Jan 4, 2009

I am looking for a decent set of tools to get me started in watch findling.
Don't thing of any highlevel work, just some watch regulating, dissasembly of broken down watches, this sort of things.
Having this in mind I need a case opener, watch holder, screwdriver set and I am looking for some good quality kit without having to break the bank.
Now everyone talks about Bergeon being of top knotch quality and I am asking what can you recomend for a brand having slmost the same quality but also being more conservative regarding pricing. At this time I have no intention of paying 100 euros for a case opener from Bergeon for instance. But in the same time I also don't see myseft buying disposable tools just to end up with a busted tool and a scratched caseback.
I have come accros this german site: http://www.watch-tool.de/shop.php
which seems to have a very vast offering and I am asking of you to share your thought on the various brands of tools presented here.

Thanks,
Marcone

lysanderxiii · Jan 4, 2009

Check out used tools.

Depending on the tool needed, some Indian tools are acceptable. For example, a 10 dollar case vise (the thing with four nylon posts in aluminum blocks) will work as well as a Bergeon one. Other tools, like tweezers and screwdrivers should be of the best quality you can afford.

A*F makes excellent stuff, often overlooked.

Anchor is an Indian brand, they make reasonably good non-precision tools, (blowers, oilers, oil cups, etc.

dsutton24 · Jan 4, 2009

I agree with lysanderxiii about the A*F screwdrivers; they're good screwdrivers for the money. I've got Bergeon screwdrivers as well, but use the A*Fs 90+ percent of the time ('why' is a long story... let me know if you want the bloody details

)

You'll also need a stone to keep the tips dressed. An Arkansas stone works fine. It doesn't need to be very large, and can be bought cheaply almost anywhere you can buy pocketknives.

There's a fellow I know who is just getting started, and he bought an LG case opener. I've actually had my hands on it and it is a very good, economical alternative to the Jaxa or Bergeon (it was around $50.00). I know a lot of people are perfectly satisfied with the cheapie imports, but in my humble yet rambling opinion a good case back wrench is worth being a little snobbish about... I've seen so many scratched casebacks...

On the same subject... The cheapie case back wrenches can often be vastly improved by stoning the pins so that they are square and flat. The other big failing is that once they are tightened into the notches in the caseback, the pins can move as you apply torque and pop out of the notches. Some are pretty good, others are awful. Unfortuntely the only way to find out is to try them out. Screwdown casebacks can really be a challenge to open sometimes, and it's really not worth making a tough job that much harder by trying to save twenty or thirty dollars.

A pair of good tweezers is also a worthwhile purchase. Consider a pair that is around 6" long, with bent tips. The only good ones I know of are Dumont, and they can be pricey. If anyone knows of a decent mid-priced alternative, I'd like to hear about them too.

I wouldn't worry about buying the inexpensive spring bar tools, or bracelet tools. They seem to work fine, and the downside to having something break isn't huge.

You probably already know this, but I always try to convince people not to tinker with their collections or their daily wear watches. Go to a thrift store or a pawn shop and buy a bag full of junkers to experiment on. Also ask around at jewelry shops, they often have decent watches that can be had cheaply from unclaimed repairs, etc. You will damage things early on, everyone does. That's a lot easier to take when it's a Timex that you paid a dollar for, and not your Grandpa's railroad watch.

Enjoy!

V8 · Jan 5, 2009

Horotec makes some reasonably priced tools as well. Some stuff doesn't need to be top notch, I have a $12.00 A*F case back opener that works great. Thing is, there is some trial and error before you know what tools to go quality on.

lysanderxiii · Jan 5, 2009

Tweezers - Page 298 of Jules Borels Jewelry tools catalog ("Tools" on their products page.) has some fairly nice economy priced stainless, anti magnetic, tweezers. The points may need to be sharpened with a piece of sand paper and then pinch the paper between the tips while gently squeezing them to ensure a parallel grip, but they are good for starters.

The Indian Tweezers sold by Otto Frei aren't bad either, at least the No. 3C I bought from them compares well with the Swiss ones, I still use them.

Just remember, anti-magnetic tweezers are not as hard as the magnetic type, and even the expensive ones can be bent up.

In reality, No. 2 and No.3C are the primary tweezers you need, maybe a Brass OO.

SteveDodds · Jan 5, 2009

I bought everything but my screwdrivers and my caseback tools at www.widgetsupply.com. I am very happy with the tweezers. I dont have any experience with any others so I have nothing to compare it to.

One of the tweezers I got was this one http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/tweezer-non-magnetic/BEO02

The other one was this one http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/tweezer-non-magnetic/BEP41

I also got my dustblower, watch hand setting punch, watch crystal polish, and a cheap loupe so I can have one with me at all times and not worry if I lose it, from this same place

I was so happy with the curved set of tweezers that I put a customer review comment on their page.

marcone · Jan 5, 2009

Thank you very much for the advices, they are really usefull in my case.
Unfortunately me living on the other side of the pond (Romania), I'm limited to store offering from Europe as I see not many online stores are willing to ship outside of the US.
Now, I want to ask you has anyone had the chance to use Beco tools?
I have searched the forum and it seems they are more known for producing good quality watchwinders so I'm wondering if their tools are also good for the job.

dsutton24 · Jan 6, 2009

SteveDodds;

I appreciate the WidgetSupply tip. I ordered an assortment of tweezers from them, and will post some feedback on them once I've played with them some.

You know what to expect from Bergeon, Grobet, and DuMont, but it's too bad there isn't a place to go for advice on student / hobbyist grade tools. There's a lot of cheap junk out there, and a few professional grade (expensive) tools, but there are very few choices in the moderately priced, decent quality tools. Tips like this are well worth exploring

marcone · Jan 9, 2009

Hey guess what I found what I was looking for: http://www.watchtool.co.uk/ UK site with a huge selection I would say of watch tools the vast majority I can't even understand what they are good for. I am very pleased also with the prices and also shipping and handling fees.

This is what i ordered:
1 x Bergeon 6767-F Spring Bar Tool
1 x A&F Swiss Bracelet Pin Remover
1 x A&F Swiss Made 9 Piece Srewdriver Set Carousel
1 x Bergeon 2819-4 Case back Jaxa Watch Tool

I went with both Bergeon and A*F because of your recommendations, now I can't wait for them to arrive

SteveDodds · Jan 28, 2009

dsutton24 said:
SteveDodds;

I appreciate the WidgetSupply tip. I ordered an assortment of tweezers from them, and will post some feedback on them once I've played with them some.

You know what to expect from Bergeon, Grobet, and DuMont, but it's too bad there isn't a place to go for advice on student / hobbyist grade tools. There's a lot of cheap junk out there, and a few professional grade (expensive) tools, but there are very few choices in the moderately priced, decent quality tools. Tips like this are well worth exploring

Have you received your tweezers yet? What do you think of them?

Docrwm · Jan 28, 2009

I've bought from Widget as well and have to say that I got some great deals on mismarked optics from them, including one with its own LED light that is pretty useful. The tools were less impressive and the cheap screwdrivers were worthless. My conclusion from my foray into all this is that it pays to invest in metal tools that are going to come into contact with expensive items that you do not want to slip and gouge. My 2 cents.

TicTocTach · Jan 28, 2009

How cheap is too cheap? I'm working my way up to looking at higher-end drivers, but the $16 10-pc set at Widgetsupply (PN SAC2-PS509) looks decent. Certainly a lot better than what I have now. The trouble I'm having is finding other sets with drivers in the 0.5-0.6mm range. There just doesn't seem to be much out there between this and the $100 9-pc set of Bergeons. Ow. I believe in having the right tools for the job, but yowza, I can fill out a large portion of my watch destruction tool kit for the cost of those drivers.

Clair

skoochy · Jan 28, 2009

Docrwm · Jan 28, 2009

TicTocTach said:
How cheap is too cheap? I'm working my way up to looking at higher-end drivers, but the $16 10-pc set at Widgetsupply (PN SAC2-PS509) looks decent. Certainly a lot better than what I have now. The trouble I'm having is finding other sets with drivers in the 0.5-0.6mm range. There just doesn't seem to be much out there between this and the $100 9-pc set of Bergeons. Ow. I believe in having the right tools for the job, but yowza, I can fill out a large portion of my watch destruction tool kit for the cost of those drivers.

Clair

Clair,

If you are talking about the ones I think you are - don't bother. The tips are all bent, the turning tops are on at an angle, etc. Worst choice I've made in tools - ever.

TicTocTach · Jan 28, 2009

oH... Well, I guess I've got another set of beater screw drivers for the utility drawer then. I'll pick up the AF's from Ofrei's when I buy the lume and other little odds and ends I need for this project. I hope the pile of tweezers, pair of pin vices, and drill assortment I also ordered are decent quality... :roll:

Clair

Docrwm · Jan 28, 2009

TicTocTach said:
oH... Well, I guess I've got another set of beater screw drivers for the utility drawer then. I'll pick up the AF's from Ofrei's when I buy the lume and other little odds and ends I need for this project. I hope the pile of tweezers, pair of pin vices, and drill assortment I also ordered are decent quality... :roll:

Clair

I bought a 6-pack of tweezers from them that were fine, use them regularly. The optics I purchased were seconds because they were imprinted with the wrong information about the magnification (they are actually better than what is printed on them) and cost me next to nothing. Its just those screwdrivers that were a complete waste. I hope that they have changed, upped the QC, whatever and yours are keepers. Good luck.

TicTocTach · Jan 29, 2009

Well, my goodies shipped today so I'll give them a good once-over when they get in, with a review here shortly thereafter. I'll have to do a little work to find something to serve as a meaningful test, though.

Clair

TicTocTach · Feb 24, 2009

OK, 3 weeks later an update. The tools came in a few days after my last post, so here's a mini-review of the goods you can get from Widget...

- The needle files appear to be decent quality and cut pretty quickly.
- The lighted jeweler's loupe (10x) is so-so, and the switch button for the light immediately broke. An easy fix, and hasn't been a problem as long as I push the button with something smaller than my finger, but annoying.
- All of the tweezers ("China made to Swiss specs") are nice. I don't have a basis for comparison, so they're probably the best I've personally ever used.
- Pin vices seem to be OK, and the drills work well.
- Hammer is so-so, the face is not finished very well at all. Should clean up OK.
- Hand remover looks to be made well, but I need to practice using it before I am comfortable with it.

Not shown are the screw drivers. They are, by far, the worst tool purchase I've ever made. They were delivered with extra tips, but not as many extras as drivers. One of the drivers came with a tip that had no blade ground on to it... just round stock. At least it was only $15, but it was still about 25% of the whole purchase. I'll be getting some ACTUAL good drivers in the next week or two.

So there you go, some good some bad. Put your $15 towards a better set of drivers...

Clair

Genway · Feb 24, 2009

Okay, I am going to share a secret with you guys, but I don't know any supply still selling it. The screwdriver set by Armway brand is actually identical to BergXXX brand, I talk to the manager in the manufacture, he said the production is in fact selling as Swiss Made by a number one watch tools company, they just OEM company. Look at their website www.powermost.com, and search armway screwdriver set.
I bought three set of 9 pieces screwdrivers from Cas-Ker 4 years ago for $45.00 each, the quality is identical to number brand, the stand is better then.

Docrwm · Mar 8, 2009

TicTocTach said:
OK, 3 weeks later an update. The tools came in a few days after my last post, so here's a mini-review of the goods you can get from Widget...

- The needle files appear to be decent quality and cut pretty quickly.
- The lighted jeweler's loupe (10x) is so-so, and the switch button for the light immediately broke. An easy fix, and hasn't been a problem as long as I push the button with something smaller than my finger, but annoying.
- All of the tweezers ("China made to Swiss specs") are nice. I don't have a basis for comparison, so they're probably the best I've personally ever used.
- Pin vices seem to be OK, and the drills work well.
- Hammer is so-so, the face is not finished very well at all. Should clean up OK.
- Hand remover looks to be made well, but I need to practice using it before I am comfortable with it.

Not shown are the screw drivers. They are, by far, the worst tool purchase I've ever made. They were delivered with extra tips, but not as many extras as drivers. One of the drivers came with a tip that had no blade ground on to it... just round stock. At least it was only $15, but it was still about 25% of the whole purchase. I'll be getting some ACTUAL good drivers in the next week or two.

So there you go, some good some bad. Put your $15 towards a better set of drivers...

Clair

Glad most of the kit was good. My lighted mag is on its third set of batteries without a problem - sorry that yours had a glitch right out of the box. Have you purchased an alternative set of drivers?

Can you recoment a budget alternative to Bergeon watch tools

marcone

lysanderxiii

dsutton24

V8

lysanderxiii

SteveDodds

marcone

dsutton24

marcone

SteveDodds

Docrwm

TicTocTach

skoochy

Docrwm

TicTocTach

Docrwm

TicTocTach

TicTocTach

Genway

Docrwm

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