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I found a Navy Seal letter to Luminox. Explains why and how. Interesting.

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#21 · (Edited)
Mystro said:
Mystro, the more you quote company advertising, the more you weaken their case.

I didn't know Luminox was on trial?
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All advertising claims deserve scrutiny, particularly those in the watch world when you're a collector and always when you're a collector of mil-issue watches. Re-posting company literature/claims isn't very illuminating (sorry).

There are many things in the Luminox "literature" which don't ring true, starting with their Latin: light = LUMEN and night = NOX NOCTIS, continuing with the fact that I've never seen a SEAL (or SF or CIA operator) wear a Luminox watch and ending with the fact that UDTs were retired in 1982, so who are the watches being bought by?

The only watch I've ever seen issued to a US SOF unit or other governmental agency is a Suunto. A mate of mine in country with his issued watch (his previous issued watch donated for my use):

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Discussion starter · #22 ·
The only watch I've ever seen issued to a US SOF unit or other governmental agency is a Suunto.

On another forum a service man stated the opposite. The watch he has seen more of was Luminox with the G-shock being a second.This was out at godforsaken part of the CA desert.
I guess it depends on who you talk toand where they are stationed at.I have several Suuntos and am on the Suunto forum a lot. I know a lot of Vectors are floating around in different branches of the military. Used primary for the quick navigation features.Newer models are getting popular as well.
 
#23 ·
Mystro said:
The only watch I've ever seen issued to a US SOF unit or other governmental agency is a Suunto.

On another forum a service man stated the opposite. The watch he has seen more of was Luminox with the G-shock being a second.This was out at godforsaken part of the CA desert.
I guess it depends on who you talk toand where they are stationed at.
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Are you sure? There is a difference between an issued watch and a worn watch. I never said I hadn't seen anyone wearing a Luminox or a G-Shock - far from it. In fact a rugby mate who was in a Special Troops Bn wanted to buy a Luminox for his deployment to Iraq, but didn't want all the SEAL and logo nonsense. He ended up with a BM and a Traser.

BTW, I've lived 3+ years in that remote CA desert. Among regular Army troops, I'd say most wore whatever CBP is for sale at the PX/Clothing Sales, some officers and NCOs who wanted something nicer wore Suuntos. The Vector was very popular then, and I nearly bought one but my mate gave me one of his castoffs (he's been issued a few in his time). I can't recall ever seeing a Luminox, but I'm sure they were out there. G-Shocks outnumber them by a fair distance.
 
#24 ·
This information is a bit dated (several years old) and I do know that Suuntos are now included in the GSA list; the following watches have (at least in the past) been ordered by the DoD:

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This explains in part the frequent sighting of cheap, non-mil watches. They may in fact be issued in many cases. There has not been in the past nor current list any watch manufactured by Luminox.

Hope this is of interest - kind regards,

Billy
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
I was thinking about the Navy Seal crest on the back of the Luminox Seal watches. Wouldn't the official Navy Seal logo be copy written much the way Lockheed Martin is protected?
Any other watches have permission to have the Seal crest legally used on them?

Case in point, MTM has a "Seal" watch but does not have the official Navy Seal crest on the case lid.

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#27 ·
Way out of my league posting in this forum, but this thread was very interesting. To my (arguably limited) knowledge, there's really no such thing as "issued" among operators. As I understand it, they can pretty much source and purchase whatever they feel they need to do the job.

This is the case with scopes and other "after market" equipment for firearms enhancement; my guess is the same would go for watches and other field equipment. The fact that a unit may all wear the same may not be because of issue, but rather the fact that it's what the guys on the team feel works.

As an aside, among those in the CIA and other intelligence agencies, a high premium is placed on consumer availability. The last thing they want is to be wearing the watch, using the pen, dialing the phone -- whatever -- that gets 'issued'. It's a give-away in the field and just not done.
 
#28 ·
Mystro said:
Wouldn't the official Navy Seal logo be copy written much the way Lockheed Martin is protected?
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Not necessarily, and this is a constant problem in all military units. We have more important things to do than pursue trademark or copyright violations. This is why every militaria shop sells t-shirts, ball caps, etc. with everybody and anybody's logo or unit insignia on them. Any search of ePrey will turn up all kinds of unauthorised items. The only folks who've been successful in protecting their property are those units that have associations, some of whom do have the resources and time to pursue such violations.
 
#29 ·
2manywatchez said:
Way out of my league posting in this forum, but this thread was very interesting. To my (arguably limited) knowledge, there's really no such thing as "issued" among operators. As I understand it, they can pretty much source and purchase whatever they feel they need to do the job.

This is the case with scopes and other "after market" equipment for firearms enhancement; my guess is the same would go for watches and other field equipment. The fact that a unit may all wear the same may not be because of issue, but rather the fact that it's what the guys on the team feel works.

As an aside, among those in the CIA and other intelligence agencies, a high premium is placed on consumer availability. The last thing they want is to be wearing the watch, using the pen, dialing the phone -- whatever -- that gets 'issued'. It's a give-away in the field and just not done.
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While some units (more all the time) are able to order off the shelf or even custom items, they are still issued items and government property. E.g., a sniper doesn't have to buy his own scope and may be able to get his unit to buy him his preferred piece of kit, but it's still government property and issued by the unit to the individual. In fact when I left the community, the bill from my unit 'special euipment issue' section was significant whereas CIF charged me nothing.

As for the rest, you'd be surprised ;-)
 
#30 ·
I resisted the urge to reply to this post when I first read it. I knew the second that I read the letter that it was complete, utter, unadulterated BS!!!

How did I know? Years of doing this kind of work for a living. The entire tone of the letter did not sound right.

I did not want to get into it on the forum, but you can't believe a fraction of what you read on the internet.
 
#31 ·
Nalu said:
While some units (more all the time) are able to order off the shelf or even custom items, they are still issued items and government property. E.g., a sniper doesn't have to buy his own scope and may be able to get his unit to buy him his preferred piece of kit, but it's still government property and issued by the unit to the individual. In fact when I left the community, the bill from my unit 'special euipment issue' section was significant whereas CIF charged me nothing.
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Got it. When I used the term issued, I was thinking it implied "mandatory" as in "this is what we bought, so you'll take it and like it." Clearly, "issued" refers to anything that the gov buys its employees, even if the equipment is spec'd by individual request. Thanks for the clarification. :-!
 
#33 ·
There is a member here who is a current member(some will probably know who I'm talking about) and he's said that he knows of not ONE SINGLE team member who will wear the watch due to the silly SEAL logo. And right now the current watch issued to East Coast teams are the Casio PAG-40.
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#34 · (Edited)
Brian D. said:
There is a member here who is a current member(some will probably know who I'm talking about) and he's said that he knows of not ONE SINGLE team member who will wear the watch due to the silly SEAL logo. And right now the current watch issued to East Coast teams are the Casio PAG-40.
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The luminox marketing teams seem to be especially persuasive at this time of the year. Watching the BUDS training on discovery channel, the only guys wearing watches were the instructors who had casios of all sorts. We cannot fault luminox for capitalizing on a great marketing schtick, they have to stick with what they have. Casio has tons of pictures of soldiers, sailors, and airmen wearing their products out and about, all around the world, as FREE advertising. The product sells itself.
I would tend to believe light use/fashion watches with unit logos/insignia are marketed towards the desk based adventurer. Casio/pathfinder seems to rule.
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Look at what these two seals are wearing. These two probably bought their watches at the Navy Exchange on base.
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#35 ·
Lotsa DW-6600's in there...
 
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#37 ·
my two cents the NYPD doesn't have an official issue watch. Most POs wore cheap watches, because if ithey got busted the department would only reimburse up to $50. I saw plenty of Casios.
 
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#40 ·
Nalu said:
My impression is that the Chief ("Chief" meaning he's probably an E-7, a relatively low rank for SEALs) wrote the endorsement knowing that it would be used, but ignorant of the rules about using one's position in such a manner. Looking at the wording of his letter, it's pretty clear they had a relationship - possibly even a financial one.

Gav, things aren't different. Have a look at the link TT provided. When I was in the community, things were different as no one really knew who the units were, what they did and so no one cared about such commercial endorsements. The suppliers were happy to be providing us products which met our requirements and honored to do so. Then the books, movies and other such nonsense started and now everyone makes something out of black nylon that is "Special" :roll:

The good news is that there is a new echelon of silent warriors who go on doing their business without any fanfare.

Mystro, the more you quote company advertising, the more you weaken their case ;-)
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Are you serious, E-7 is a low rank for the Seals!? E-7 is nothing to sneeze at. There are both enlisted and Officer ranks and I assure you E-7 is not low. Enlisted Rank only goes to E-9 and although I dont know the exact makeup of officers to enlisted in the Seals ranks I would bet the enlisted out number the Officer ranks. Many a great warrior retire at E-7! On the subject of the letter I wouldnt be surprised if it was fake!

Regards,

Ren
 
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