How does the overall quality and feel of the Black Bay with the in-house movement compare with a Rolex Submariner?
Black Bay MT5602 vs Rolex Submariner quality?
ORANGEm0ney
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This is one of the weirdest pissing contests I've ever seen.
Both watches are excellent. Both watches cost almost the same for the factory to build between 800-1500$ according to most forums. The Rolex is a refined design through ages and the Tudor BB is brand new so Rolex has an advantage on design and refined quality. But the Tudor is more bang for the buck!! Another thing to consider is that refining might not always be a good thing it could end up in overkill. Just take a look at the latest Rolex Submariner "SUPERLATIVE CHRONOMETER" and "OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED"?? Come on, of cause it is, its a Rolex!! You dont have to spell it out!!
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If the superlative chronometer status makes people feel better and dish out the big bucks I suppose that's alright. My Black Bay Blue is just over 2 weeks old. I've been clocking it's accuracy everyday on the WatchTracker app. I would say this isn't too shabby for a non-chronometer certified "ETA". [emoji6]
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WatchTracker
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If a sub c could be built for $1,500 we would see watches built like the sub c for $1,500.
I'll give anyone here $1,500 to build me a Rolex quality watch.
My only expectations is that you are completely in-house.
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I'll give anyone here $1,500 to build me a Rolex quality watch.
My only expectations is that you are completely in-house.
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That's not how manufacturing works.
Vertical integration, economy of scale, labor costs, infrastructure costs and manufacturing efficiency are just a few factors that determine what the manufacturing costs of an item are.
I actually think $1500 would be on the high side of what it costs to manufacture a mature product like a Rolex SubC.
Especially when you factor in how long Rolex has been in the business of mass producing basically the same product.
Why can't other companies do it?
Because they don't have the advantages Rolex has been steadily building for 100 years to get to where they are.
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Aesthetics: 14060/16610 > Tudor Black Bay > 114060/116610
Movement: Rolex > Tudor
Bracelet: Rolex > Tudor
Resale value: Rolex > Tudor
The tudor is a fine watch. But it's not a better watch than the sub. The older subs were more attractive, the newer subs aren't as appealing (to me) but are made with better materials. The tudor doesn't do anything better than the sub though.
Movement: Rolex > Tudor
Bracelet: Rolex > Tudor
Resale value: Rolex > Tudor
The tudor is a fine watch. But it's not a better watch than the sub. The older subs were more attractive, the newer subs aren't as appealing (to me) but are made with better materials. The tudor doesn't do anything better than the sub though.
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I'm very aware how manufacturing works... That's why it's a stupid argument.
The cost to make a Rolex for ROLEX is not the same cost as Joe schmoe can make a Rolex or ANY watch manufacturer that isn't Rolex.
Just to entertain the idea of $1,500...
If it's true what is the point? Does that make Casio G shocks $5 to make? Brietlings and tags and whatever $500 to make? Omegas $800?
Should every manufacture that creates better, innovative ways and processes that cut costs automatically go on to the consumer? Should that be true for all goods? Luxury goods?
My point? Why bring it up when it means absolutely nothing.
Cause what does it truly cost to make a Rolex... From scratch.. Isn't that what we all should be comparing? If I could make it for $1,500 I would make it myself. Instead I pay Rolex or any other brand cause I don't got time or the expertise to. And what price would I pay to have that done for me? What price is fair? I actually find their pricing fair considering.
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Because it might be nice to know that the watch you paid 5000-7000$ for only cost the manufacturer between 500-1500$ to make. It is only up to you after that information to decide what you wanna do with that information. Is it okay for Rolex to sell there watches for ten times the price of the cost, well of course, it is them who owns the brand and watch and as long as they sell at this price why not do it??
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I own three of them, including a $12k Yachtmaster purchased two days ago.
There's no way that Yachtmaster cost Rolex more than $1500 in raw materials and labor, yet I happily paid $12k for it.
As I posted in another "Rolex price thread".
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That bottle of water that sells for $1.89 at the convenience store cost Nestle around $0.05 including the bottle and cap...
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Why is it Rolex that this cost to manufacture actually matters?
Why not every other watch brand?
Do you even consider the clothes you are wearing right now? The phone you are typing on?
No... This cost to manufacture is only an issue when a specific LUXURY watch brand has lowered their own cost to manufacture.
By the way do even consider the overhead for Rolex? Or how much they spend on R&D? The land they own? The people they pay and their benefits? You know they create and build their own machines and tools? Warranty costs? Why shouldn't these costs to the company be part of this imaginary $1,500?
Have you read the tour through Rolex factory by Hodinkee?
Again.. The cost to manufacture a Rolex has nothing to do with anything. It would if other companies actually put out something in that price range that was similar in quality. But nobody does... So what exactly are you comparing? Or if you're not comparing... And just think you should be entitled to a lower price because a company has been perfecting their craft, improving manufacturing techniques, business processes, innovating... Well I guess you don't know how every single for profit business works.
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The cost to manufacture is meaningless. But you know that cause you own three. The price you paid is fair cause.. Well you paid it.
You weighed out all the pros and cons with similar products and chose what you chose. Including the prices for other products and to you there was indeed a winner.. Three in fact.
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We're in agreement...
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And you can make it yourself for $0.00 by turning on your kitchen faucet. (Sorry, Nestle is a sore point for me. They are trying to take water from the aquifer we get our water from, and we have neighbours stupid enough to believe that the water from their taps is unsafe, and then they go and buy the same water in bottles from Nestle.)
The big difference between Nestle and Rolex is that Nestle adds no value to the product they sell. It is not the same as Rolex selling watches. It's more like if Rolex were to mine some gold ore and then sell it to you in a baggie at 20x the market rate. Clearly Rolex does far more than that.
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They add convenience.
And the market has determined that convenience is worth 38X the raw materials value.
That's a pretty sweet sales strategy that Rolex should be envious of.
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I currently own both. The sub is a better watch in every way. Note that it being better doesnt mean the BB is a crap watch.
It is a well made watch and to me is better made than my speedy (I know not a diver but to give reference)
The subs bracelet is better made, feels better, its clasp is sharper (the clasp on the BB is a very weak point to me.
The BB is worth its price to me... and the sub is worth its price as well. They arent in the same category which makes sense.
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It is a well made watch and to me is better made than my speedy (I know not a diver but to give reference)
The subs bracelet is better made, feels better, its clasp is sharper (the clasp on the BB is a very weak point to me.
The BB is worth its price to me... and the sub is worth its price as well. They arent in the same category which makes sense.
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