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Robert Brandt et Cie

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kurtnz

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi
I have had this watch now for 2 years.
I have tried on different forums to get some info, but there is not much around.
I would like some questions answered on my pocket watch.
It is an ultra slim Robert Brand et Cie gold watch. The movement is only 1.5mm thick. To wind the watch you need a male key.
What I would like to know is, if there is some more information on this watch maker than there is in K H Pritchard who dates the maker to approx 1825

Also why was this ultra slim watch made? There is just about no information available on these thin watches. I have seen a similar at the International Watch Museum in La Chaux de Fonds. I have written to them but unfortunately did not get a reply.
I forgott to mention that the watch and the case have the same number. 681
The number of the movement is under the dial and it also has a A G&G stamped next to it.
I'm putting a couple of photos with this.

Thank you for your help

Kurt
 

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#2 ·
Dear,
WOW!!! :p
This is one of the best floating barrels I've seen in a long time!
This was at that time the best a man could get!
very very beautifull and very valuable!
it's complete and in magnificant technical state...
very very nice little present to see on a tuesday's morning!
thanks for sharing, I will have look if I can find something on it.

nice day,
RJ van Melle.
 
Discussion starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thank you all for your input.
The Brandt family name is quite common in the Jura region of Switzerland and my entire search has found nothing to suggest that this Brandt has anything to do with Omega. It is possible that it is actually the name of 2 persons that have formed a company i/e Robert & Brandt. But I'm stuck and this is why I came here hoping to find out more. If you do an Antiquorum search on Robert, Brandt you find several watches that were produced by this company. Always flat and always beautifully made.
So let's hope some body can come up with that "special" info. I do believe that this watch was probably produced between 1825 and 1840. The low number 681 suggests the earlyer date.
Somebody suggested that the movement could have been produced by Philippe Meylan.

(The one you have resembles one signed by Philippe Meylan for Robert Brandt, with a "P.M." initial on the movement)

But then I would expect to have the P M initials on the dial plate and not A G & G
Pritchard has only a very small entry. Here is what she writes: See PDF attached.

Kurt
 

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#6 ·
I have nothing to add but admiration! This is an amazing execution of technology.
 
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#7 ·
That is an incredibly thin watch.

Amazingly, two of these movements would fit into the depth of the
dial plate of the pocketwatch on my bench which is 3.5mm deep and
there would still be half a mm spare.

Unfortuanately I can provide no information on the makers but as to why
it was made then I would suggest simply because the watchmaker could...
he had the skills and so why not, and he would tap a niche market for this
expensive production.
 
#8 ·
Acording to my books:
Robert Brandt en cie Ca. Chaux-de-fonds. ca 1825
only few watches known world wide.
few enamel dials one silver dial
VERY VERY high end quality.
hope have been of help.

regards,
RJ van Melle
 
#10 ·
Dear Kurtnz,

I think I disagree with you.
The empire era is one of my periods of wich I restore a lot.
(most of my work dates back from this period)
What I see completely is in accordance with the 1825 era.
The Robert Brandt et Cie. was just one of the numerous firms around that periode that took watchmaking to a height what never ever was reproduced ever after. In the books it is noted as a manufacturer...
Brequet from this period is ofcourse the most famous name.
I see no wheels like Vacheron, no teeth in module form.
Spokes of the wheels that still live in the 18th century end so on.....
What I see is genuine craftmenship early 19th century.

I once had a travelers clock around 1820 in the shop: only to be 22 mm thick!!!! 8 day with alarm and grande repetition!
the 22 mm was include the dial! with a very early form of cylinder escapement like they were end 18th century, still with a flat escapement wheel.
this has nothing to do with Vacheron, that's my opion.
It is just a magnificant masterpiece!!!

regards,
RJ van Melle.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
I have some more info.
In The book Swiss Watch by Eugene Jaquet and Alfred Chapius. This kind of flat watch is described as a Vacheron caliber.
There is also a photo that shows the 2 kinds of calibers.
"The fashion for specially flat watches was pushed to the extreme. Two types of caliber were in use for these pieces: the Vacheron caliber and the reversed caliber, commonly called the Bagnolet."
Mine is definitly not a Bagnolet caliber.
I scanned part of the text.
 

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#12 ·
Dear Kurtnz,

I read the text, indeed interesting that only 2 ebauches were used, interesting indeed...
could you scan the pictures also?
I am very interested in them...
thank you in advance!

regards,
RJ van Melle.
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
Here are the scans of the other pages.
You can see that the decoration of the case and face of the top watch on the second page are very much like mine.
Just as a matter of interest. Since I started with this thread I had the watch running and the watch was running slow of about 3 Minutes over the 3 days. Not bad going for a watch that is approx. 180 years old.

Regards
kurtnz
 

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#14 ·
Well Kurtnz,
Thanks!
I think we have a positive ID, never thought of that!
so no manufacturer here.
only the date I am thinking of.
the text says 40's.
According to my books Brandt et Cie was 20's/30's of the 19th century.
the spokes of the wheels really looks the same.
only the teeth are still interesting me, I have the feeling your teeth are more commen for the 20's why:
they are quite straight, the devellopment of the module teeth did some milesteps in the 30's and 40's in the 19th century.
In the the scan they look to me more like early module teeth.
The engravement of the dial: very Empire like, the quality of engravements went rapidly down after 1835, and further.
We must consider that the 40's of the 19th century was an economical VERY bad period with quite some revelutions going on in Europe.
This directly had their influence on quality of clocks and watches.
When looking at watches and clocks: always consider the historical background when dating...
BUT: I don't own the knowladge, just saying what I am thinking.
still: This IS one of the best watches I've seen in a long time!!!
It beats my Mercer I own by far!!! b-) which is quite a masterpiece, of the same period!

regrads, nice day!
RJ van Melle.
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
Thank you RJ van Melle and all the other's that gave some information.

I quite agree with the time of 1825. If you look at the Antiquorum online search engine most of the watches from Robert Brandt are from the 1820's to 1840's.
http://catalog.antiquorum.com/catalog.html (just type in Robert Brandt) unfortunately they don't give the sold price anymore, but with using the Price from... to ... you can narrow the prices down.

I was hoping that somebody just might be able to recognize the ebauche maker. It was quite common for watches to be made by somebody else and then finished off by a watchmaker like Brandt. The movent is stamped A G&G. So I might just have to put this project aside again und hope to stumble on some more information at another time.
By the way what is the book you were using for your reference?

Thanks a lot all of you.

Regards

Kurt
 
#16 ·
Wow, amazing watch and great thread guys. Thanks!
 
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#17 ·
Hello friends,

I am quite new registered in this community, and read the discussion about watches by Robert Brandt and Cie.
I recently bought a pocketwatch, manufactured by Robert Brandt & Cie, Nr. 732.
It is an ordinary early swiss bridge 20 rubies-movement of high quality with an early keyless mechanism.
My personal guess to the time this watch was manufactured is 1850 to 1860 according to the shape of the "Pendant" and the crown.
It is marked: Robert Brand & Cie, Demi-Chronometer, Rementoir au Pendant.
The movement starts at the first click of the winding mechanism.
If anyone is interested in pictures, i would try to present them.

Darnok
 
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