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Custom chinese watch project part 2

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Discussion starter · #43 ·
After argueing with the factory for hours over instant messenger, it has become clear that they cannot/are unwilling to make any changes to the case. Apparently they are committed to making at least 200 watch cases of the exact design in the pictures. They don't care that the case is different from the one i wanted them to make or that it is too thick.

And of course a refund is out of the question. Tempted to start filing a complaint with the alibaba dispute team, but it looks like there is no way i can get my money back.

Im guessing the only way out of this quagmire is to get them to make the watches with these cases.
 
#44 ·
IanC said:
After argueing with the factory for hours over instant messenger, it has become clear that they cannot/are unwilling to make any changes to the case. Apparently they are committed to making at least 200 watch cases of the exact design in the pictures. They don't care that the case is different from the one i wanted them to make or that it is too thick.

And of course a refund is out of the question. Tempted to start filing a complaint with the alibaba dispute team, but it looks like there is no way i can get my money back.

Im guessing the only way out of this quagmire is to get them to make the watches with these cases.
Click to expand...
Complaint to alibaba is no necessary at all,because it a waste of time and you cannot be sure you can win. Picture can not show exact size of the case,so you have not evidence to say the factory didn't make the case like the picture show. You say it is not like the picture and the factory will say it is like the picture. There is no any standard at all.
I looked through the photos of the watches. The case is very nice even though it is a little bit thick. You see,everyone has different taste,some maybe like thin one but some maybe more like thicker one. The think case has it own advantage too. From what you said,the factory cooperated very well to modify so many points to the watches. Only photos can not show exact data of the case,so the case the factory made is really nice only as per a picture.
I think if the factory can make a change,they will do it,no factory want to lose a customer. And the case made now is really excellent. It is no necessary to make the case exactly like the picture you sent to them.
 
Discussion starter · #45 · (Edited)
I think most people will agree there is a significant difference from the original case picture and the resulting case. Generally speaking, for a dress watch, i think a thinner case works better as well, and ive already had some of my friends tell me the case looks too thick and doesn't fit the dial. If you have a picture and know the case diameter, you can easily figure out the size of the dial by comparing ratios.

The factory has been giving me headaches throughout the entire time. Aside from the fact that their 45 day sample time has turned into 10+ weeks, they keep doing things without asking me for confirmation. Then in the end they simply tell me to accept it because nothing can be changed. The case is a good example. They claimed they ordered 200-500 pieces. Of what, is not exactly clear, "watch blanks" was mentioned at some point, although i do not know what that is. They did this without showing me their design for the case mould, then told me that nothing can be changed and told me to just accept the incorrect case.

They also assured me they could print the brand name on the watch box...i asked them a few days ago for a status update on the boxes. They told me their supplier changed their minds about printing the name but their boss decided to go ahead and order the boxes anyway...again, without mentioning this to me. I have had to chase them for status updates all the time because they simply do not tell me anything unless i ask them for it, and it is quite obvious the factory forgot to order some components until i asked them about it, which resulted in the delays.

They also had the dial for several weeks, during which time they could clearly see that it failed QC. Instead of asking the supplier to provide dials that actually passed QC though, guess what they did?

They were planning to send me the faulty dials for the sample and convince me that the QC problems would be solved in the final production run. They literally said they knew the dial was low quality but would solve the problem in production (which common sense indicates will not happen).

They also screwed up designing the dial which was supposed to have a date window. Only after they ordered the movements AND started making the case, did they realise the position of the date window was wrong, by which time there was no way to fix the problem. This is not what you would expect for a watch factory with supposedly 10+ years of experience. Nothing about their behaviour so far indicates any kind of experience or professionalism. Its like they are trying to do a half assed job on purpose because they have my deposit and they know they are untouchable.

Now even if i were to use this case, i can't get the sample because the dials they have can't even pass QC, so there is no point sending the samples to me.
 
#47 · (Edited)
PWJ2012CHINA said:
Complaint to alibaba is no necessary at all,because it a waste of time and you cannot be sure you can win. Picture can not show exact size of the case,so you have not evidence to say the factory didn't make the case like the picture show. You say it is not like the picture and the factory will say it is like the picture. There is no any standard at all.
I looked through the photos of the watches. The case is very nice even though it is a little bit thick. You see,everyone has different taste,some maybe like thin one but some maybe more like thicker one. The think case has it own advantage too. From what you said,the factory cooperated very well to modify so many points to the watches. Only photos can not show exact data of the case,so the case the factory made is really nice only as per a picture.
I think if the factory can make a change,they will do it,no factory want to lose a customer. And the case made now is really excellent. It is no necessary to make the case exactly like the picture you sent to them.
Click to expand...
This post reminds me of being in a Chinese Restaurant where they try to convince you to take the Shrimp Fried Rice when you ordered Shrimp Lo Mein. It does not matter whether the resulting watch is "nice". It's not what he paid them to do. It's his product. He is the one who is going be stuck with the 200+ watches that are not what he ordered. Saying, "We know this is not what you wanted and has QC issues but we are not changing it because its good enough in our opinion" is 100% unacceptable. We know why they won't change it and it has nothing to do with it being "good enough".
 
#48 · (Edited)
Such disdain for the customer is terrible. Bet it wouldn't happen with the Swiss.

I wonder if they give a damn about their reputation. Thought about naming them on every watch forum with an interest in Chinese watches.

The more BS you accept from them, the more they will give you. Time to make a stand.

This doesn't just reflect badly on that one watch company, but the entire Chinese watch industry. Hopefully the others will feel compelled to have a quiet word with their compatriots.
 
#49 ·
Defiant4Ever said:
Such disdain for the customer is terrible. Bet it wouldn't happen with the Swiss.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. I recall reading a news story about the mayor of Geneva ordering a batch of 'City of Geneva' souvenir/gift watches from Swatch Group's OEM division (run by Certina I think). The watches supplied were made entirely in China. Apparently the mayor had failed to specify that the watch should be 'Swiss made'.
 
#50 ·
While I entirely understand your disappointment that the watch is not exactly as specified, it is nevertheless a good looking watch with a coherent design which would appeal to many customers.

The onion crown and prominently ribbed bezel are features more commonly associated with a thicker case. And the minute marks are similar to the classic 'railway track' style which is usually seen (particularly in pocket watches) inset from the dial edge by about the amount shown in your sample. And the offset seems to balance the visual weight of the ribbed bezel.

So to my eyes it is a balanced and coherent design. ...But it's not what you asked for and that is frustrating.

The cream bits in the black is simply an effect of poor printing against a textured surface. Many vintage Chinese watches exhibit the same problem (particularly Zhongshan watches). It's probably the reason why Sea-Gull textured dials always have flat surfaces inset for printing. It is particularly disappointing that the factory promised you this dial design with print over texture if they were not really sure that they were able to deliver. It's by no means an impossible task, it simply requires more care to be taken.
 
#51 ·
Defiant4Ever said:
Such disdain for the customer is terrible. Bet it wouldn't happen with the Swiss.

I wonder if they give a damn about their reputation. Thought about naming them on every watch forum with an interest in Chinese watches.

The more BS you accept from them, the more they will give you. Time to make a stand.

This doesn't just reflect badly on that one watch company, but the entire Chinese watch industry. Hopefully the others will feel compelled to have a quiet word with their compatriots.
Click to expand...
I am Chinese. But what can i say. Of course Swiss is good. If let me choose,I will choose our famous brand Beijing,Shanghai and Seagull,although these brand is not so perfect. But these brand are suitable for me. I love my country although she has many problems now.Yes,Swiss is good,but I love China. I will wear watches only with Chinese brand,Beijing,Tianjin or Seagull,not wear watches with foreign brands even if there are good.
 
#53 ·
PWJ2012CHINA said:
China can make high quality watches with low price. Many countries are enjoying this
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. I own 4 Sea-gull and have just ordered 3 Shanghai. Plus, I am awaiting delivery of the forum moon-phase.

The company in question is making the Chinese watch industry look bad, not just themselves.

The Chinese watch industry would be better off without them.

It is not good business to get a bad reputation with Chinese watch supporters.
 
#54 ·
Defiant4Ever said:
Yes, I agree. I own 4 Sea-gull and have just ordered 3 Shanghai. Plus, I am awaiting delivery of the forum moon-phase.

The company in question is making the Chinese watch industry look bad, not just themselves.

The Chinese watch industry would be better off without them.

It is not good business to get a bad reputation with Chinese watch supporters.
Click to expand...
This may sound blunt, but my guess is that the manufacturer of these watches could care less if the OP is less than 100% happy with the order. Face it, this is a batch of 200 watches and the reality is that the Chinese manufacturer is not making a killing off of this purchase order. It would be one thing if they were mass producing a watch for say, Timex, and if they screw it up, could impact their reputation and business.

I don't know the OP's rationale for having a batch of watches made, but unless the OP is planning to launch a watch company and have a future need for manufacturing product, they are not risking losing significant biz by offering less than stellar customer service. Also, given the small margin on the small batch, the Chinese manufacturers is probably trying to limit their COGs.
 
#55 ·
ghostryder said:
This may sound blunt, but my guess is that the manufacturer of these watches could care less if the OP is less than 100% happy with the order. Face it, this is a batch of 200 watches and the reality is that the Chinese manufacturer is not making a killing off of this purchase order. It would be one thing if they were mass producing a watch for say, Timex, and if they screw it up, could impact their reputation and business.

I don't know the OP's rationale for having a batch of watches made, but unless the OP is planning to launch a watch company and have a future need for manufacturing product, they are not risking losing significant biz by offering less than stellar customer service. Also, given the small margin on the small batch, the Chinese manufacturers is probably trying to limit their COGs.
Click to expand...
That may be so. I just think IanC should do something different to complaining on his tod. If I were a manufacturer I wouldn't want my name openly sullied on a major watch forum; hypothetically, it could screw the big deal with Timex. Who would want to do business with a company that brazenly ignored the wishes of watch enthusiasts. Those enthusiasts acting in unison have a lot of power. I like suppliers that make constructive comments provided they wait for my say-so to proceed.

I must admit that I wouldn't pursue a custom-watch venture without a local contact who has something to lose. The forum watch and Thomas will hopefully turn-out to be a good case study.
 
#56 · (Edited)
IanC said:
I think most people will agree there is a significant difference from the original case picture and the resulting case. Generally speaking, for a dress watch, i think a thinner case works better as well, and ive already had some of my friends tell me the case looks too thick and doesn't fit the dial. If you have a picture and know the case diameter, you can easily figure out the size of the dial by comparing ratios.

The factory has been giving me headaches throughout the entire time. Aside from the fact that their 45 day sample time has turned into 10+ weeks, they keep doing things without asking me for confirmation. Then in the end they simply tell me to accept it because nothing can be changed. The case is a good example. They claimed they ordered 200-500 pieces. Of what, is not exactly clear, "watch blanks" was mentioned at some point, although i do not know what that is. They did this without showing me their design for the case mould, then told me that nothing can be changed and told me to just accept the incorrect case.

They also assured me they could print the brand name on the watch box...i asked them a few days ago for a status update on the boxes. They told me their supplier changed their minds about printing the name but their boss decided to go ahead and order the boxes anyway...again, without mentioning this to me. I have had to chase them for status updates all the time because they simply do not tell me anything unless i ask them for it, and it is quite obvious the factory forgot to order some components until i asked them about it, which resulted in the delays.

They also had the dial for several weeks, during which time they could clearly see that it failed QC. Instead of asking the supplier to provide dials that actually passed QC though, guess what they did?

They were planning to send me the faulty dials for the sample and convince me that the QC problems would be solved in the final production run. They literally said they knew the dial was low quality but would solve the problem in production (which common sense indicates will not happen).

They also screwed up designing the dial which was supposed to have a date window. Only after they ordered the movements AND started making the case, did they realise the position of the date window was wrong, by which time there was no way to fix the problem. This is not what you would expect for a watch factory with supposedly 10+ years of experience. Nothing about their behaviour so far indicates any kind of experience or professionalism. Its like they are trying to do a half assed job on purpose because they have my deposit and they know they are untouchable.

Now even if i were to use this case, i can't get the sample because the dials they have can't even pass QC, so there is no point sending the samples to me.
Click to expand...
From so many words you said I understand your situation very well. But pls relax to find a better way to solve the problem. It is best if the factory can change the case. But if something cannot be changed,we can see in different view.
I find on web that a Casio Watch has a similar bezel with the case bezel that factory made. It looks really nice indeed. If that factory can not change the case,it is really a good acceptable option too.
Pls see the pictures

 
#57 ·
ghostryder said:
This may sound blunt, but my guess is that the manufacturer of these watches could care less if the OP is less than 100% happy with the order. Face it, this is a batch of 200 watches and the reality is that the Chinese manufacturer is not making a killing off of this purchase order. It would be one thing if they were mass producing a watch for say, Timex, and if they screw it up, could impact their reputation and business.

I don't know the OP's rationale for having a batch of watches made, but unless the OP is planning to launch a watch company and have a future need for manufacturing product, they are not risking losing significant biz by offering less than stellar customer service. Also, given the small margin on the small batch, the Chinese manufacturers is probably trying to limit their COGs.
Click to expand...
Which is why they are a lousy manufacturer. I can find all sorts of reasons to screw my customers. It doesn't make them acceptable business practices. Having said that, I can't say I'm completely surprised by their behavior.
 
#58 ·
PWJ2012CHINA said:
From so many words you said I understand your situation very well. But pls relax to find a better way to solve the problem. It is best if the factory can change the case. But if something cannot be changed,we can see in different view.
I find on web that a Casio Watch has a similar bezel with the case bezel that factory made. It looks really nice indeed. If that factory can not change the case,it is really a good acceptable option too.
Pls see the pictures
View attachment 665397
View attachment 665399
View attachment 665401
Click to expand...
Do people not understand customer service? It's not what he ordered. It's not his responsibility to suck it up and deal with it. It's the supplier's responsibility to deliver what was ordered.
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
The cream bits in the black is simply an effect of poor printing against a textured surface. Many vintage Chinese watches exhibit the same problem (particularly Zhongshan watches). It's probably the reason why Sea-Gull textured dials always have flat surfaces inset for printing. It is particularly disappointing that the factory promised you this dial design with print over texture if they were not really sure that they were able to deliver. It's by no means an impossible task, it simply requires more care to be taken.
Click to expand...
Ah i see. Well i dont think its possible to get the factory to take more care in regards to making the dial though...

ghostryder said:
This may sound blunt, but my guess is that the manufacturer of these watches could care less if the OP is less than 100% happy with the order. Face it, this is a batch of 200 watches and the reality is that the Chinese manufacturer is not making a killing off of this purchase order. It would be one thing if they were mass producing a watch for say, Timex, and if they screw it up, could impact their reputation and business.

I don't know the OP's rationale for having a batch of watches made, but unless the OP is planning to launch a watch company and have a future need for manufacturing product, they are not risking losing significant biz by offering less than stellar customer service. Also, given the small margin on the small batch, the Chinese manufacturers is probably trying to limit their COGs.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Although logically speaking, if the watches did sell well, the customer would get more watches done by the same factory...but if they screw up the initial batch, they will just get it from another factory.

From so many words you said I understand your situation very well. But pls relax to find a better way to solve the problem. It is best if the factory can change the case. But if something cannot be changed,we can see in different view.
I find on web that a Casio Watch has a similar bezel with the case bezel that factory made. It looks really nice indeed. If that factory can not change the case,it is really a good acceptable option too.
Pls see the pictures
Click to expand...
That case is nice and all, but the problem is, there is no way to get the factory to use another case.
 
#60 · (Edited)
Yes,I agree with you and I know what customer service is. I guess there may be some problems between the customer and that factory. I hope the customer and that factory can find a way acceptable for both to solve the disagreement. And I hope the customer get the nice watches soon. I am waiting.
 
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