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About to give up on watches completely

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#61 ·
CitizenM said:
I actually really like the AT 8500, but I have no idea what you're talking about. 4K more in a GS would murder an AT8500...you'd be in the hi-beat range or Snowflake range. Don't get me wrong, the AT 8500 rocks and is a very real competitor, even in terms of value--I'd actually probably buy one over the comparable GS just because I like how it looks more, but objectively speaking, the GS is still the better value.
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Kidding? I can get a top line SpringDrive for $6600, delivered. Can I get an A-T for $2600? If I can, I apologize, it's much less than I thought.

At the price point of the Grand Seiko, I don't think anything from Switzerland can touch them.
 
#62 · (Edited)
Am I in the minority if I take watches at face value? I care only for design and quality. I don't care for brand nor movement (provided it's reliable and has hack/wind).

What are the tangible differences between the eta2824 and the movement AP uses in the royal oak?
 
#63 ·
I find it hard to believe he can't find anything he likes for less than 15 grand. That is unless he's very wealthy and already has several fine pieces. I mean if your collection was nothing but APs, and A. Lange & Sohns and Pateks, yeah it might be hard to find something for under $15,000 that tickles the fancy, but that would beg the question of why he all of a sudden wants to "slum it" with sub $15k watches. Yeah OP is probably trolling. :-d
 
#67 ·
CitizenM said:
I actually really like the AT 8500, but I have no idea what you're talking about. 4K more in a GS would murder an AT8500...you'd be in the hi-beat range or Snowflake range. Don't get me wrong, the AT 8500 rocks and is a very real competitor, even in terms of value--I'd actually probably buy one over the comparable GS just because I like how it looks more, but objectively speaking, the GS is still the better value.
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Really? It would murder the other watch?
 
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#68 ·
WnS said:
Am I in the minority if I take watches at face value? I care only for design and quality. I don't care for brand nor movement (provided it's reliable and has hack/wind).

What are the tangible differences between the eta2824 and the movement AP uses in the royal oak?
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I'm with this guy. Watches are about looks and feel. As long as the movement works reliably, I don't really care too much what's in it. Would I like an nice inhouse movement from Nomos or Seiko or JLC or Zenith? Absolutely! Do I really care that so many of my favorite companies, like Ball, Tag, Doxa, Hamilton and B&M use ETAs? Not even in the slightest.
 
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#69 ·
WnS said:
Am I in the minority if I take watches at face value? I care only for design and quality. I don't care for brand nor movement (provided it's reliable and has hack/wind).

What are the tangible differences between the eta2824 and the movement AP uses in the royal oak?
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I don't know whether or not you are in the minority but.... if you truly took watches at face value, wouldn't you only buy quartz? Or do they all suffer from poor design and low quality? Obviously there is something else that is a little intangible that you like about automatics, a sort of romantic notion. This is the same notion, only more powerful, that then pushes someone to seek a movement that has been painfully hand-decorated when an ETA would do just fine. It is the element of human intervention. And that is the main difference between the eta2824 and AP's 3120.
 
#70 ·
fasthandssam said:
I don't know whether or not you are in the minority but.... if you truly took watches at face value, wouldn't you only buy quartz? Or do they all suffer from poor design and low quality? Obviously there is something else that is a little intangible that you like about automatics, a sort of romantic notion. This is the same notion, only more powerful, that then pushes someone to seek a movement that has been painfully hand-decorated when an ETA would do just fine. It is the element of human intervention. And that is the main difference between the eta2824 and AP's 3120.
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Funny you say that, if every watch in my collection was available with >=8 ticks per second quartz movements for half their price (either solar or >=2.5 battery changes), all my watches would be quartz. In general, automatic watches tend to be prettier and use better materials.

If I could get the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms with an 8 ticks per second quartz movement with everything else the same, I'd buy it in a snap if it were $3,000 (vs $10,000 for automatic).
 
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#71 ·
WnS said:
Funny you say that, if every watch in my collection was available with >=8 ticks per second quartz movements for half their price (either solar or >=2.5 battery changes), all my watches would be quartz. In general, automatic watches tend to be prettier and use better materials.

If I could get the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms with an 8 ticks per second quartz movement with everything else the same, I'd buy it in a snap if it were $3,000 (vs $10,000 for automatic).
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Well then I'd say you are a rare bird and I wish that I felt the same- it would certainly be easier on the wallet! For me, 90% or MORE of the value I put into a watch comes from human intervention. This makes most of the watches that I drool over pretty expensive :(
 
Discussion starter · #72 ·
First, not trolling

Second, yes, the car manufacture completely matters as to who is behind it. Who backs BMW versus who backs Mercedes? It makes a difference.

Third, i mention the 15 grand price point as apparently I cannot get anything original below that price point. As in real watches like Patek, around 15 thousand, etc...At least my faith in Patek is still solid, please don't reveal anything negative about them, I need to still believe that real watchmakers are out there

Fourth, I'll again utilize the analogy that you CANNOT call yourself a baker when you simply purchase a cake from the grocery store and ALL YOUR COMPANY DOES is add some glitter and frosting/designs. Or maybe take some of their icing off and put some of your icing in its place. No, sorry, you're not a baker in the least.
 
#74 · (Edited)
Just another "big-business-bad" follower. How disappointing. You had better know the product inside and out before you take the company to the woodshed.

Take two doses of microeconomics every four hours and check back in next week with an educated leg to stand on.
 
#75 ·
@ fasthandssam: Actually I'll correct myself, I guess there is a tiny part of me who appreciates the non-electronic nature of the mechanical movement. There was certainly this allure at the start of my watch collecting. But once I have about two automatics, I can see myself going by the looks of the watch alone - quartz or not.

@ steelsky: Whatever floats your boat, mate. Watchmakers didn't really make the metal in their watches, it was created by nuclear fusion at the core of stars. Those subatomic particles involved in the fusion reaction where originally created by the big bang. By your logic, every watchmaker needs to be a God who created a universe in order to harvest the metal to be used in watchmaking. Moving back on topic, what's the reason these sub 15K watches aren't cool?

Image
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#76 ·
steelsky said:
First, not trolling

Second, yes, the car manufacture completely matters as to who is behind it. Who backs BMW versus who backs Mercedes? It makes a difference.

Third, i mention the 15 grand price point as apparently I cannot get anything original below that price point. As in real watches like Patek, around 15 thousand, etc...At least my faith in Patek is still solid, please don't reveal anything negative about them, I need to still believe that real watchmakers are out there

Fourth, I'll again utilize the analogy that you CANNOT call yourself a baker when you simply purchase a cake from the grocery store and ALL YOUR COMPANY DOES is add some glitter and frosting/designs. Or maybe take some of their icing off and put some of your icing in its place. No, sorry, you're not a baker in the least.
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Dude, you're completely out of your mind. You haven't thought this thing through any further than your own personal interest. You'd like to buy in-house manufactured fine time-pieces that are 100% original... as if you were buying fine paintings from an artist. Thats awesome, you CAN do that, but you have to expect watches of that caliber are going to be MUCH more expensive.

You have to remember at the end of the day, watchmaking is NOT a non-profit art project, it is a business and all watchmakers are trying to make a living. If that level of craftsmanship sold for 5K it would be the equivalent of horological philanthropy. They wouldn't make any money!

Your baking example is really a perfect discussion because like watches MOST bakers are using a mix on some level or another... either it's one they've simply bought, or it's one they've spruced up with some additional ingredients. The bakers who make the cakes from scratch are typically a great deal more expensive than the rest. It's really not rocket science here.

And all of this really begs the question... is a cake from scratch really better than a well made mix cake? Are you going to refuse to eat cake that was made from a mix by virtue of it being from a mix? Get real dude... cake is good.

Conclusion: Just shut up and eat the cake. If you insist on only eating cake made from scratch, you are a snob. In this case you're a snob who can't even afford the fine mix cakes.
 
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#78 ·
Manuel Garcia O'Kely said:
Kidding? I can get a top line SpringDrive for $6600, delivered. Can I get an A-T for $2600? If I can, I apologize, it's much less than I thought.

At the price point of the Grand Seiko, I don't think anything from Switzerland can touch them.
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I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're agreeing with me. That was my point, $4000 more would get you an incredible watch.

But, as an aside, a top-o-the-line spring drive costs $150,000. The top of the line SD in grand seiko is the chronograph, and I think that's $11000 MSRP, but I can never get a straight answer on what it originally costs.
 
#79 ·
WnS said:
Am I in the minority if I take watches at face value? I care only for design and quality. I don't care for brand nor movement (provided it's reliable and has hack/wind).

What are the tangible differences between the eta2824 and the movement AP uses in the royal oak?
Click to expand...
Your not alone, it's all about looks for me. I'll let the purists sweat the details;-)
 
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