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If watch marketing was 100% honest

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#21 ·
Age_of_Surfaces said:
It's not personal.

I'm always struck by how little some people know about how the watch industry works; how incurious they are about the deceptions of marketing; or how quickly they will gun for brands. I shouldn't be. Brands trade on customer credulity, ignorance and fickle self-perception.

Apart from a couple of people who got it, most have coughed and spluttered into their tea/coffee over the OP, while others have questioned, flat footed, "why did you say this and not that." I know this is a generalist's forum, but still.

One could say that all of this - so far - is a fairly simple sign that marketing works over the long haul; that critical thinking doesn't matter and that po-faced piety or butt-hurt indignation does. I began my career in marketing and advertising in 1992, so perhaps I've seen too much of what's inside the sausage to be surprised.
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I think a lot of people just accept it. We understand that marketing is working, and even that it does affect us, but don't get too worked up about it.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Bradjhomes said:
I think a lot of people just accept it. We understand that marketing is working, and even that it does affect us, but don't get too worked up about it.
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I understand you. But marketing is a $500 billion industry (in a normal year) and we ought to get worked up about it. A lot of it is invasive. It is literally mind bending because its purpose is to bend minds and change behaviors into buying stuff to the extent that buying stuff has now become synonymous with self-actualization. I'm guilty of this too, and I don't particularly like it.
 
#24 ·
Age_of_Surfaces said:
I understand you. But marketing is a $500 billion industry (in a normal year) and we ought to get worked up about it. A lot of it is invasive. It is literally mind bending because its purpose is to bend minds and change behaviors into buying stuff to the extent that buying stuff has now become synonymous with self-actualization. I'm guilty of this too, and I don't particularly like it.
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Fair enough to want to do something about it, but being 'that guy' starting a crusade on a forum isn't going to change anything.

I don't mean to assume that's what you are trying to do, just that I think that's what some people are reacting to.
 
#25 ·
Got more important things to worry about at the moment that who is lying to me in marketing quite honestly.

As Brad says we all know we are being “Marketted” but isn’t that part of modern life?
 
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#26 ·
I'd also question the tactic of trying to 'enlighten' us by being quite so condescending. Although, of course, I genuflect to those anointed with the aura of having worked in marketing during the early 90s. It must have been savage, trying to decide what Grand Cru to order over lunch.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Bradjhomes said:
Fair enough to want to do something about it, but being 'that guy' starting a crusade on a forum isn't going to change anything.

I don't mean to assume that's what you are trying to do, just that I think that's what some people are reacting to.
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Yes, people are overreacting to what is basically inconsequential self-expression. I fight the real fights elsewhere.
 
#29 ·
Age_of_Surfaces said:
It's not personal.

I'm always struck by how little some people know about how the watch industry works; how incurious they are about the deceptions of marketing; or how quickly they will gun for brands. I shouldn't be. Brands trade on customer credulity, ignorance and fickle self-perception.

Apart from a couple of people who got it, most have coughed and spluttered into their tea/coffee over the OP, while others have questioned, flat footed, "why did you say this and not that." I know this is a generalist's forum, but still.

One could say that all of this - so far - is a fairly simple sign that marketing works over the long haul; that critical thinking doesn't matter and that po-faced piety or butt-hurt indignation does. I began my career in marketing and advertising in 1992, so perhaps I've seen too much of what's inside the sausage to be surprised.
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Marketing without a solid product behind it is useless. I don't take any side here (definitely not Rolex's), but all these high end watch manufacturers had built up a reputation on good products because of the quality of their products. Customers are not all stupid milk-cows. If the product is not reliable and of low quality, it won't sell for more than a 100 years like Rolex or AP or Patek.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
gioda said:
Marketing without a solid product behind it is useless. I don't take any side here (definitely not Rolex's), but all these high end watch manufacturers had built up a reputation on good products because of the quality of their products. Customers are not all stupid milk-cows. If the product is not reliable and of low quality, it won't sell for more than a 100 years like Rolex or AP or Patek.
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McDonalds has contributed to a global epidemic of malnutrition aided and abetted by invisible and unaccountable marketing consultants. Bloomingdales approved an ad campaign for its products that played on a date rape theme. The dairy industry would have you believe that it comprises small farmers working sustainably at a community level.

You're right that consumers are not milch cows. In marketing we use a slightly different bovine analogy: that of cows led over the grill, and funnelled into the abattoir single file. This applies more today than ever, with the rise of micro-marketing based on the data we leave strewn unprotected across the internet.

Watch brands are generally not as sophisticated as in other industries, such as oil and gas or commercial real estate. What they can do - and do - is trade on intangibles such as human sentiment. There are large margins here for manipulation.

Some brands are also capable of changing in order to preserve market positioning and status. You mentioned 100-year legacies. Well, in the late 1800s, Patek Philippe marketed itself for excellence in time keeping. It entered - and won - a series of observatories and chronometry trials. These wins were used to help profile the company for a certain type of excellence.

The quartz revolution killed all of that which is why today Patek Philippe doesn't enter into any impartial competitions on timekeeping. Neither do Rolex or Omega. The now-discontinued trials of the last decade were won by the likes of Breguet and Tissot. Patek Philippe and brands that try to emulate it have pivoted from performance to heritage. They haven't ditched performance altogether obviously, but its relative value to marketing is now diminished compared to the storytelling of heritage.

That's how the big brands survive: by changing the way they market, and changing the products behind it. They are also securing market dominance right now by upping investment in 'in-house' manufacture and doing absolutely nothing to help suppliers and mid-sized brands cope with the pandemic. We'll come out of this with fewer brands commanding market share, and marketing that makes sure you don't pay any attention to any of this.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
LordBrettSinclair said:
I'd also question the tactic of trying to 'enlighten' us by being quite so condescending. Although, of course, I genuflect to those anointed with the aura of having worked in marketing during the early 90s. It must have been savage, trying to decide what Grand Cru to order over lunch.
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I apologise for coming across as condescending. Marketing hair products to the British Black community in the early 1990s was not particularly lucrative. it met with actual, real-world condescension but was groundbreaking, which matters more. At the time most of the marketing industry presumed consumers worth the effort were white. Thirty years later Patek Philippe still does with its 'Generations' campaign.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Borderline TLDR (and figured the "Brand Spin" thread was enough on this topic) but skimming to the end:
"They are also securing market dominance right now by upping investment in 'in-house' manufacture". I'm seeing more micro's investing in "in-house" such as Dekla who makes their own cases, dials, hands for example.

"doing absolutely nothing to help suppliers and mid-sized brands cope with the pandemic." I don't see any reason why they would help mid-sized brands.

"We'll come out of this with fewer brands commanding market share, and marketing that makes sure you don't pay any attention to any of this". If the vaccines coming out this month are effective, the pandemic will be less of a factor next year. I don't see much of a change in the number of watch companies that "survive". Even if it were true, that watch brands began dropping like flies, marketing has no effect on hiding that from me.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Fergfour said:
Borderline TLDR, but skimming to the end:
"They are also securing market dominance right now by upping investment in 'in-house' manufacture". I'm seeing more micro's investing in "in-house" such as Dekla who makes their own cases, dials, hands for example.

"doing absolutely nothing to help suppliers and mid-sized brands cope with the pandemic." I don't see any reason why they would help mid-sized brands.

"We'll come out of this with fewer brands commanding market share, and marketing that makes sure you don't pay any attention to any of this". If the vaccines coming out this month are effective, the pandemic will be less of a factor next year. I don't see much of a change in the number of watch companies that "survive". Even if it were true, that watch brands began dropping like flies, marketing has no effect on hiding that from me.
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Vaccine rollout won't change much our lives much next year. A small number of countries have already bought up a half of global supply. That leaves 160+ countries vulnerable. Expect hunger, famine, unemployment, contracting household and national income, and political revolution. There has never been a logistical challenge this size either: vaccinating 7.8 billion people. That'll take years (at a time when more than 40% of people in a country like the US are 'vaccine-hesitant.') This is hardly an ideal market environment for a broad-based, healthy luxury watch market.

What does this mean for the watch industry? Who knows? But I know that investment will dry up in some areas as asset allocations change to others. Money will flow to strong hands in all sectors of the economy. Smaller and/or weak(er) actors in the watch industry will struggle, be bought out, or die.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Awesome topic! I'll play:

Omega: "Hey...there is another James Bond wannabe brought us 8k".

Rolex: "Now you not just wanker, but wanker with justified sence of superiority"

DOXA: " When was the last time when you put your face deeper than strabucks cup?"

Panerai: "Its your first blood, John Rambo"

Chris Ward: " We are Brits, but with swiss flavor...but still Brits...but little bit swiss..."

Steinhart: " Now you can show to entire world that you have no money but still want Rolex".

Tudor: "there. Now go and have you regrets."

Invicta: "Size does matters and and its your chance to compensate"


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 
#39 ·
Age_of_Surfaces said:
Vaccine rollout won't change much our lives much next year. A small number of countries have already bought up a half of global supply. That leaves 160+ countries vulnerable. Expect hunger, famine, unemployment, contracting household and national income, and political revolution. There has never been a logistical challenge this size either: vaccinating 7.8 billion people. That'll take years (at a time when more than 40% of people in a country like the US are 'vaccine-hesitant.') This is hardly an ideal market environment for a broad-based, healthy luxury watch market.

What does this mean for the watch industry? Who knows? But I know that investment will dry up in some areas as asset allocations change to others. Money will flow to strong hands in all sectors of the economy. Smaller and/or weak(er) actors in the watch industry will struggle, be bought out, or die.
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Dear Oracle, which horse is going to win the 3.45 at Haydock next Tuesday? Asking for a friend.
 
#40 ·
I really do know better than to post on this thread at all, but...I have to admit, that Patek "generations" ad is pretty awful. "Watches for people like us...you know what I'm talking about."

(On the other hand, OP, I'd avoid using the word you referenced for people of color: I realize that you used it only to mock it, but still, its only one tiny step above the N-word on the "please don't use this word, ever" spectrum.)
 
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