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6L35, why the hate for it?

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king seiko seiko sje083j1
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Mickgriddle

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Good morning all from the Land of the Rising Sun.

Like many of you, I'm pretty stoked about the upcoming release of the 44KS "KSK" SJE083J1 (that's a mouthful), and will likely be hopping down to one of the Seiko stores in Yokohama to pre-order it.

Many of the comments on English-speaking enthusiast sites like Monochrome, Fratello, etc., are highly suspect of the 6L35 movement. We've only seen this new movement for about two years since Seiko released the SARA015, so there not much of a track record for it, but it seems to be a well-conceived movement and is designed to operate tete-a-tete with a famous offering from ETA. It's thin, has decent power reserve, has a DATE which I love, efficient winding, and like everything Seiko makes, is entirely built in-house.

So, why the grumbling about being offered a 6L35 in a faithful recreation of a very handsome King Seiko? I can understand that the price point should get you Grand Seiko 9S movements, but I think a 6L makes the most sense in a new KS watch. A 9S series would simply make this a rebranded Grand Seiko and muddy the waters of their already numerous collections. This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't need a chunky 9S65 inside a vintage homage watch.

Does anyone have any technical expertise that they can weigh in on about the 6L35?

Thanks and have a great holiday weekend!
 
#3 ·
6L35 said:
I think some people mistake "L" for "R".
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I was going to write this as well, I think some are just confused.

The other aspect is probably the lack of watches with the 6L35 so people don't know how well it runs. On paper, it looks to be comparable to the 8L35, except lower power reserve.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
#5 · (Edited)
If you're happy to have a -10/+15 movement inside a 3 grand watch then it's fine. Many people wouldn't be best pleased with that. A couple of years ago there was the SJE073, also an LE, which was 2k with the same movement. So this is a thousand more 2 years later with the same movement. That's typical of them these days though.
 
#7 · (Edited)
As above, it is unfortunate it is read as 6R35 - I did the first time I saw it - and thought how could Seiko justify a movement from a £700 watch in a £3000 -
It's certainly a superior movement, is it the equivalent of the 8L35 but slimmer?

musingsofawatchaddict.wordpress.com

The “new” Seiko 6L35 caliber introduced in the Presage SJE073J1/SARA015, or is it?

So at Baselworld 2018, Seiko introduced a new Presage model. The international model name is SJE073J1. There was a fair bit of fanfare to this model because of the “new” caliber 6L35 th…
musingsofawatchaddict.wordpress.com musingsofawatchaddict.wordpress.com
 
#9 ·
Mine in a SJE073 had to undergo service after 9 months of ownership because it didn't hold well the charge. After its return, it is making -3/+4 spd as upper limits, specifically less than -1.5 resting face up for 12 hours and less than +2 for 12 hours when worn. Last time I controlled it for a month, it gained 1 second in total (you know, what it gains during the night, it's lost during the day). I have heard that the 8L35 is more stable than that, and given its bigger size it seems normal to me to bear more exactitude. As for the charging mechanism I have to say that it is very efficient and loads easily.

It's a Credor level movement, its brother 6L75 is used in several Credor pieces. The most important characteristic is its slimness, and that's why I think is used in the Presage range and now in the new King Seiko. Regarding prices, in my opinion the SJE073 was adequately priced (with a discount), but the other Presage that use it are a bit too high for me, although they are dressy and elegant pieces worthy of any refined wrist. The King Seiko is even less expensive than these and a new and different style, so the price is quite good (a bit high if you ask me) if you can expend 3 grand (less discounts).

I am really happy about getting it in the SJE073 before the rising of prices, so happy that I even use it as a nickname in this forum. And no, I am not biased, for the last two watches I have bought are from Longines and Vostok.
 
#10 ·
It is a forum, so you have quite a lot of negativity everywhere on the internet.

Regarding this, some confused it with the 6R. Others wanted the more premium 8L (which then would have made the watch thicker and something else to complain). Seiko bashing is popular. There are some things you can really criticise (like too many misalignment issues in their divers), but for the most part, it is nonsense. People just want a good watch for the cheapest money. Anything serves as a stick to beat Seiko with in that regard.

6L is still new, even if derived from a previous movement. Most have no clue about the performances of it. It was meant for higher priced Presage dress watches, which KS falls into in a way. It is used sparingly, which i like and offers a better option for above mid tier (and under GS) slimmer watches.

King Seiko is not coming back permanently for now IMO (it may change in a decade), so Seiko would rather place it in the higher end Presage category than GS, to make a distinction between the two in image and pricing. Simple really.

Enjoy the watch if if you get it. I heard the Seiko Laurel may get the 6L, and i would like to get that watch if possible. So then i could experience the movement first hand.
 
#11 ·
The 6L is a pretty good upgrade from the usual 4R/6R stuff. It's essentially equivalent to the ETA 2892 in both size and performance. I'm not mad at it being in a $2K watch. Plenty of unmodified ETAs in watches around that price.
 
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#13 ·
Something I find interesting is how some watches receive significant levels of negative opinion based almost solely on movements being "subpar for the price", "not in-house", "not exclusive", etc....and then some watches receive credit for everything outside of the movement that contribute to total value proposition.

Even though movements can be customized, regulated, etc...to different degrees.

It really seems as though there is an assumption that all Seikos with the same movement are graded as having the same heart. Alternatively, luxury brands with ETA/Sellita movements of the same "number" receive assumed credit for being "higher grade"

Is it true that Seiko does nothing different, or is it held to a different standard?
 
#15 ·
Mediocre said:
Something I find interesting is how some watches receive significant levels of negative opinion based almost solely on movements being "subpar for the price", "not in-house", "not exclusive", etc....and then some watches receive credit for everything outside of the movement that contribute to total value proposition.

Even though movements can be customized, regulated, etc...to different degrees.

It really seems as though there is an assumption that all Seikos with the same movement are graded as having the same heart. Alternatively, luxury brands with ETA/Sellita movements of the same "number" receive assumed credit for being "higher grade"

Is it true that Seiko does nothing different, or is it held to a different standard?
Click to expand...
I've read before that Seiko movement parts use stronger and thicker metal than the typical Swiss counterparts for durability reasons. This may explain why their watches tend to be thicker. I also read that 6L movement is designed more in line with Swiss mechanical design in order to lower the thickness. I don't know movement mechanics enough to know for sure.
 
#16 ·
clyde_frog said:
If you're happy to have a -10/+15 movement inside a 3 grand watch then it's fine. Many people wouldn't be best pleased with that. A couple of years ago there was the SJE073, also an LE, which was 2k with the same movement. So this is a thousand more 2 years later with the same movement. That's typical of them these days though.
Click to expand...
8L35 is also rated at -10/+15, but I see a lot less complaints about the ceramic bezel MM300 on WUS, despite being a 3 grand watch as well.

I'm not saying this accuracy rating is fine, as many Swiss brands offer COSC certification at this price point now, I'm just saying there seems to be a lot more negativity on the 6L35 compared to the 8L35.
 
#17 · (Edited)
aalin13 said:
8L35 is also rated at -10/+15, but I see a lot less complaints about the ceramic bezel MM300 on WUS, despite being a 3 grand watch as well.

I'm not saying this accuracy rating is fine, as many Swiss brands offer COSC certification at this price point now, I'm just saying there seems to be a lot more negativity on the 6L35 compared to the 8L35.
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Why don't you ask him how he feels about his MM300?

SBDX001 also used to cost a lot less than the current iteration.

If I really want a ceramic bezel I'll buy a Rolex lol!

I don't need a chronometer certified 8L35 that runs exactly the same as the current 8L35B which already runs pretty much in chronometer spec.

Does the 6L35 run that bad in real life?
 
#18 ·
krayzie said:
Why don't you ask him how he feels about his MM300?

SBDX001 also used to cost a lot less than the current iteration.
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Haha, I didn't know he has a MM300, and had to search for it.

Completely spot on with your comment on the SBDX001 though, I bought mine used from WUS, but it was in a great condition, and I'm the second owner. I got it for around $1,300 USD back in 2016. Amazing value for money at that price point, and it's a definite keeper for me after almost 5 years of ownership.
 
#19 · (Edited)
aalin13 said:
Haha, I didn't know he has a MM300, and had to search for it.

Completely spot on with your comment on the SBDX001 though, I bought mine used from WUS, but it was in a great condition, and I'm the second owner. I got it for around $1,300 USD back in 2016. Amazing value for money at that price point, and it's a definite keeper for me after almost 5 years of ownership.
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Yes I remember MM300 used to have a MSRP of 250,000 yen. I got mine in a trade, and even tho I don't wear it much these days if at all, I still got it serviced by Seiko Japan earlier this year. Will probably never sell it.

The watch I traded it for was a Tissot with a chronometer spec Valjoux 7765. Back in the 90's they came with a COSC cert that actually includes all the test data of the movement. Swatch told me this type of certificate can still be produced today instead of having just a meaningless plastic card.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
krayzie said:
Most people by now want Seiko to do one of two things: either raise the specs or reduce the prices.

Until their sales tank in a drastic scale across the board neither will ever happen and this type of discussion will just continue on.
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I agree, and it's lamentable that Seiko has inevitably gone down the road of profit margins. Granted, they still make great products that people are still buying, but we've seen increases in MSRP every year for a decade now. Like more than just inflation.

I don't even want to mention Grand Seiko. They've gone off the deep end and into Rolex territory with prices and ever-increasing case sizes. I have a modern GS quartz which I think best exemplifies the value and quality that we are accustomed to in Seiko, but most importantly for me, it has a classic size! That's why the new KS44 appeals me, it retains a pretty authentic case size and thickness while adding an automatic movement with date to a venerable design.

Anyway, thanks all for the discussion. Looking forward to seeing those KSKs in the wild next month!

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 
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