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Difference between Seiko 4r and 6r movement

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Limenweim

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I was looking up watches and noticed the relatively high prices of the 6r series, and the cheapest ones I come across so far fall within the 400++ USD range. It made me wonder about the difference between the 6r movement and the 4r movement. I understand that the 6r movement is largely similar with the 7s movement, except that it has the ability to handwind and hack.

I read on another post that the 4r15 movement does not allow the handwinding or hacking, but my 4r36 on my SRP151J certainly allows me to do both. If my relatively cheap 4r36 movement already allows me to handwind and hack, what would be the incentive for someone to upgrade to the 6r series? If it is the accuracy factor, then I am still not convinced, as my SRP151 already gives me -2 / +5 seconds a day depending on how I rest the watch when not in use.

Can anyone here give a detailed explanation regarding their differences? Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Limenweim said:
Hi all, I was looking up watches and noticed the relatively high prices of the 6r series, and the cheapest ones I come across so far fall within the 400++ USD range. It made me wonder about the difference between the 6r movement and the 4r movement. I understand that the 6r movement is largely similar with the 7s movement, except that it has the ability to handwind and hack.

I read on another post that the 4r15 movement does not allow the handwinding or hacking, but my 4r36 on my SRP151J certainly allows me to do both. If my relatively cheap 4r36 movement already allows me to handwind and hack, what would be the incentive for someone to upgrade to the 6r series? If it is the accuracy factor, then I am still not convinced, as my SRP151 already gives me -2 / +5 seconds a day depending on how I rest the watch when not in use.

Can anyone here give a detailed explanation regarding their differences? Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think the short answer may lay in marketing to two different pricing levels.

This link Inside the Seiko 6r15 with a comparison to the 7s26.. in 2manywatches Archives. Forum
gives us a very good look at how the 6r was developed by making some changes to the base 7s movement.
At the end of the article Dr Seiko links to another post about the 8r28 chrono.

He speculated; rather eloquently; about how Seiko was moving ahead with the 6r calibre and readying it for added complications. This we have seen and it is understandable that a new mechanical chrono will be in an upper tier, both quality and price wise.

That leaves the 4r series. Seiko has kept the 7s calibre series around longer than any of it's other mechanical movements and it was logical that it was due for replacement. The first cut was the 4r15 which is nothing more than a beautified 7s with one extra jewel.
But this was to be the base for a whole new calibre(4r36) which hand winds and hacks. No doubt many of the changes made to the 6r were employed in the 4r but so far it doesn't look like the 4r is destined to be any more than a standard 3 hand display.

Additionally; Seiko seems to be rationalizing parts for all three calibres to improve upon manufacturing. The recent releases of the 4r, 6r and 7s 'C' series shows that parts and processes are being honed for better compatibility between the three calibres. A quick look through the parts lists for these calibres shows that there are many more common parts but also shows that many parts for these new 'C' versions are not compatible with the 'B' and 'A' versions.

If Dr Seiko is right(and I believe he is); we are going to see more complications arrive that are based on the 6r calibre. We are also going to see many of the classics revamped with the newer 4r movements. So far; there is a new Monster and it is imminent that the SKX divers will emerge with the new 4r36.

So; apart from a few cosmetic differences in the base movements; the biggest difference is the intended markets...the 4r being put into the entry level watches and the 6r and it's offshoots being put into mid tier watches.
 
#3 · (Edited)
not really, the 4R15 is closer to the 6R15 then the 7S series,

The 4R15 is a 6R15 with the hacking lever and the handwinding bridge removed, it retains the escapement and mainspring from the 6R15 allowing it to have a -15/+25 accuracy like the 6R15 and the 50h Power reserve like the 6R15.

The 4R35/6/7/8 is the other way around, its a 6R15 with the escapement and mainspring from a 7S series calibre, meaning that it has the -25/+35 accuracy and 40h power reserve from the 7S while retaining the hacking lever and handwinding bridge from the 6R15.

Supposobly theres a new version of the 6R15 which is the C variant, the B variant made it part compatible with the 6r20 calibre, the C variant makes it part compatible with the 7S calibre to be able to crank out the 7S, the 4R15, 6R35/6/7/8 and the 6R15 out of the same assembly line, you can tell apart the C variant becuase its 24 jewels like the 4R35/6/7/8 and not 23 jewels like the old 6R15.

In summery :
So basicly, all the calibres are 21,600 BPH except the 6R20 which is 28,800.

7S25/26/35/36 is a non hacking, non handwidning -25/+35 second accuracy 40h power reserve.
4R15/16 is non hacking, non handwidning -15/+25 second accuracy 50h power reserve.
4R35/36/37/38 is hacking, handwinding -25/+35 second accuracy with 40h power resereve
6R15 is hacking, handwinding -15/+25 second accuracy with 50h power reserve.

personaly since seiko implements the magic lever system which is the most efficient automatic winding trasmision on the market and can get your watch started with just giving it a nasty look handwinding isnt too critical, but personaly i like my watches to hack...
 
#4 ·
Alpinist said:
not really, the 4R15 is closer to the 6R15 then the 7S series,
...
Click to expand...
Sorry but the 4r15 is an identical movement to the 7s25 with one added jewel. They share the same balance system...parts are interchangeable.
The 6r15(the original) is nothing more than a 7s calibre with some machining done to the base plate and some extra parts added to make it hack and hand wind.

If you had read Dr Seiko's fine article; you would have seen this.

I'm not talking about specs(changing one part can account for those differences); rather about the physical base movements themselves. The 7s26 and the 4r16 have identical base plates. The 4r may be more nicely decorated but it is the same part.

If you have some pictures of the base plates of these calibres to illustrate your point of view; I would love to stand contradicted :)
 
#5 ·
this is interesting! lots of fan boys rave about the 6R but basically they are "modded" 7S with better accuracy... the fact that JDM models use them only adds to the "prestige" of the 6R... can't wait for more info here about the 3 calibers -- 7S, 4R, 6R! :)
 
#7 · (Edited)
#9 · (Edited)
the orients use a different movement that has similar characteristics.

the 469 is orients workhorse, its basicly like a 7S26 forged in mount mordor...

But orient keeps modding it and adding stuff to it, theres a GMT variant, a very popular power reserve variant, even a "new" (its been on the market for a couple of years now) variant which has hacking and handwinding,

Its hard as nails and recently passed its 40th anniversery in production, the only annoying part is on the day date variants of the movement it requires a extra pusher to move the day of the week wheel when setting the date, something allready intergrated in to the main stem in the 7S26/36,

People tend to think that the 469 is part of the 7S family becuase Seiko owns orient, but their mechanical movements are in house (and apparently mostly based on the 469 family), Modern Orient quartz watches on the other hand are all Seiko powered.

Orient also has a VERY high end mechanical movement which meets cosc parameters called the 88700 reserved for the Royal Orient line, but were taking about watches in the 3 grand price range.


Personaly... i want a 8R based watch.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
3 grands is definitely out of my league! The only thing holding me back from getting an Orient at the moment is that I am afraid the Orient parts would not be easily acquired, say, 20-30 years down the road. I am intending to get a mid-ranged watch which would serve me for years to come, and still want it to be serviceable whenever it is needed. Seiko watches are within my consideration by virtue of the ease of parts replacement, as I hear that the parts are easily acquirable and interchangeable (maybe that should be a plus point when I think about upgrading, come to think of it).

This might be the wrong place to ask, but are Orient parts easy to come by, for the watchmakers/repair personnel?
 
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