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Chronographs that are genuinely 24 hour

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onewheedave

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
When I first read about chronographs many years ago, I came away with the impression that the classic chronograph had 3 sub dials measuring seconds, minutes, and hours, up to 24 hours.
Obviously there are many variations, with plenty of chronographs having sub dials for sub-seconds, seconds and minutes, only able to measure up to 1 hour total, or 30 minutes.
What seems very strange to me is that there seem to be NO chronographs available of the first type.
I've certainly spent many, many hours looking online for a chronograph [usually in the sub ÂŁ500 range] that can measure up to 24 hours.
Now there are certainly lots that appear to be 24 hr, but, on closer inspection, the 3rd subdial does nothing more than state the current time in 24 hour format i.e. if the time on the main watch hands is 7.30 pm, the sub dial will say 19.30.
I've never found anything in the watch descriptions that actually state that distinction, but I can tell only because listed watches tend to be photographed with the hands set to either 10 to 2, or 10 past 10, and looking at the 3rd sub dial it always is in the 24 hour position of one of those.
My first question is why?? As someone with memory issues I make extensive use of stopwatch/countdown timer functions and find it frustrating that I can't find a chronograph that can measure up to 12 or 24 hours.
My second question is, does anyone know of a [preferably sub ÂŁ500] chronograph that has 3 sub dials that can measure up to 24 hours?
Finally, presumably there is a official term for the kind of 24 hr chronograph I'm talking about- what is it? It would be very useful when trying to google search for such a watch.

[please note, I am fully aware that most dirt cheap quartz digitals have 24 hr stopwatches- I own a large number of casios, G-shocks etc, etc. I prefer the look and history of analogue watches, and currently when wearing an analogue watch on the left I also have a casio w202 on the right to take care of timing functions- it would be nice to get a proper 24hr analogue chronograph so I could get by with just one watch on my wrist]
 
#2 ·
My guess is that power reserve is the biggest issue. You're asking a lot of a single mainspring when the traditional power reserve for most chrono watches is sub 50 hours. Most all semi-affordable chronos are the same two movements, the 7750 and the st19, neither of which will do what you need. To go further in price you get to El Primero, which still doesn't. So...I think the probability that this exists is limited outside of ultra high end haute movements.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
midshipman01 said:
My guess is that power reserve is the biggest issue. You're asking a lot of a single mainspring when the traditional power reserve for most chrono watches is sub 50 hours. Most all semi-affordable chronos are the same two movements, the 7750 and the st19, neither of which will do what you need. To go further in price you get to El Primero, which still doesn't. So...I think the probability that this exists is limited outside of ultra high end haute movements.
Click to expand...
I find that confusing. Mechanical watches are powered either by winding or automatic movements- so power reserves would surely only be a problem if the watch weren't being worn, or wound, for 24 hours?
Secondly, and I should have made this clear in my post- I'm after a analogue chrono, but it doesn't have to be mechanical, a quartz movement is fine.
 
#6 ·
tissot t touch solar pro (mine)
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Casio Pro Trek (mine)
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new tissot t touch solar connect (not mine, not my photo)
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On all of these the chrono feature can be left 'on' which means it can be running and seen all of the time.
These have a countdown timer as well
 
#7 ·
onewheedave said:
I find that confusing. Mechanical watches are powered either by winding or automatic movements- so power reserves would surely only be a problem if the watch weren't being worn, or wound, for 24 hours?
Secondly, and I should have made this clear in my post- I'm after a analogue chrono, but it doesn't have to be mechanical, a quartz movement is fine.
Click to expand...
Since you're find with quartz it really doesn't matter, but just to answer the question, running a chrono can suck quite a bit of power. A handwind is of course limited by how much you wound it, but even with an auto it's unlikely they would design a movement that had a decent probability of dying before it's functions could be realized, which is probably why you don't see auto 24 hour chronos. Or, put more simply, they can't assume that you definitely will be moving your wrist consistently, it needs to work even if you don't.

But anyway, quartz is definitely going to be the ticket.
 
#9 ·
The main reason to make 12h totalizers rather than 24h is legibility. Few people need a chronograph that counts more than 12h (most people don't even need that, see all the chronos without hour counter for reference), and the more sections you have around a small sub-dial, the harder they are to read. So for the great majority, an analog 12h chrono is more convenient than a 24h chrono.
 
#10 ·
#11 ·
onewheedave said:
When I first read about chronographs many years ago, I came away with the impression that the classic chronograph had 3 sub dials measuring seconds, minutes, and hours, up to 24 hours.
Obviously there are many variations, with plenty of chronographs having sub dials for sub-seconds, seconds and minutes, only able to measure up to 1 hour total, or 30 minutes.
What seems very strange to me is that there seem to be NO chronographs available of the first type.
I've certainly spent many, many hours looking online for a chronograph [usually in the sub ÂŁ500 range] that can measure up to 24 hours.
Now there are certainly lots that appear to be 24 hr, but, on closer inspection, the 3rd subdial does nothing more than state the current time in 24 hour format i.e. if the time on the main watch hands is 7.30 pm, the sub dial will say 19.30.
I've never found anything in the watch descriptions that actually state that distinction, but I can tell only because listed watches tend to be photographed with the hands set to either 10 to 2, or 10 past 10, and looking at the 3rd sub dial it always is in the 24 hour position of one of those.
My first question is why?? As someone with memory issues I make extensive use of stopwatch/countdown timer functions and find it frustrating that I can't find a chronograph that can measure up to 12 or 24 hours.
My second question is, does anyone know of a [preferably sub ÂŁ500] chronograph that has 3 sub dials that can measure up to 24 hours?
Finally, presumably there is a official term for the kind of 24 hr chronograph I'm talking about- what is it? It would be very useful when trying to google search for such a watch.

[please note, I am fully aware that most dirt cheap quartz digitals have 24 hr stopwatches- I own a large number of casios, G-shocks etc, etc. I prefer the look and history of analogue watches, and currently when wearing an analogue watch on the left I also have a casio w202 on the right to take care of timing functions- it would be nice to get a proper 24hr analogue chronograph so I could get by with just one watch on my wrist]
Click to expand...
see my post above
 
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#12 ·
ffritz said:
The main reason to make 12h totalizers rather than 24h is legibility. Few people need a chronograph that counts more than 12h (most people don't even need that, see all the chronos without hour counter for reference), and the more sections you have around a small sub-dial, the harder they are to read. So for the great majority, an analog 12h chrono is more convenient than a 24h chrono.
Click to expand...
Yes, this.

I would much rather have a 12hr counter vs 24hr for this reason alone. Also, its not like mechanical chronos stop counting when they reach their max time. Rather, they simply continue around the dial. So a 12hr counter should be sufficient to measure 24 hours... Unless, for example, the user could somehow be confused as to whether 18 hours had elapsed since timing started or only 6 hours. Which doesn't seem likely to me.
 
#14 ·
midshipman01 said:
My guess is that power reserve is the biggest issue. You're asking a lot of a single mainspring when the traditional power reserve for most chrono watches is sub 50 hours. Most all semi-affordable chronos are the same two movements, the 7750 and the st19, neither of which will do what you need. To go further in price you get to El Primero, which still doesn't. So...I think the probability that this exists is limited outside of ultra high end haute movements.
Click to expand...
MissileExpert said:
Aside from the power reserve issue, the other big reason is that anything timed over that long of a period doesn't need accuracy to the tenth of a second. The Ironman Triathlon World Championships, which are typically over 7 hours, only time things to the second.
Click to expand...
I don't understand the concerns regarding power reserve. A running chronograph doesn't drain mainspring power quicker than the base movement alone.

The mechanism just requires more torque while the chrono is engaged, so when the mainspring has wound down almost completely and the watch nears the end of its PR, the watch with the running chrono will stop earlier, while the same watch with stopped chrono would continue for some hour more on very low steam. But for any automatic watch or one you wind every day that's not an issue, since they never reach that state of very low mainspring torque..
 
#15 ·
ffritz said:
I don't understand the concerns regarding power reserve. A running chronograph doesn't drain mainspring power quicker than the base movement alone.

The mechanism just requires more torque while the chrono is engaged, so when the mainspring has wound down almost completely and the watch nears the end of its PR, the watch with the running chrono will stop earlier, while the same watch with stopped chrono would continue for some hour more on very low steam. But for any automatic watch or one you wind every day that's not an issue, since they never reach that state of very low mainspring torque..
Click to expand...
Not sure how you can't consume more power when you are driving more hands when the chrono is activated. With more parts moving, more power is consumed. It may be negligible compared to an idle chrono, but it is something. Things don't start moving by magic. More torque requires more energy. If you're riding a bike uphill, you require more torque to travel the same distance. And it requires more power to do that. More energy means higher power consumption rate. That's the way my engineering brain analyzes it. Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the way chrono's work.
 
#16 ·
MissileExpert said:
Not sure how you can't consume more power when you are driving more hands when the chrono is activated. With more parts moving, more power is consumed. It may be negligible compared to an idle chrono, but it is something. Things don't start moving by magic. More torque requires more energy. If you're riding a bike uphill, you require more torque to travel the same distance. And it requires more power to do that. More energy means higher power consumption rate. That's the way my engineering brain analyzes it. Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the way chrono's work.
Click to expand...
Spring energy is depleted with displacement of the spring. The mainspring displacement is limited by the normal timekeeping function of the watch. The spring doesn't unwind faster when the chronograph is engaged, thus the energy in the spring cannot deplete faster when the chrono is running.

The chrono taps into excess energy which would otherwise be wasted when the chrono isn't running.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
MissileExpert said:
Not sure how you can't consume more power when you are driving more hands when the chrono is activated. With more parts moving, more power is consumed. It may be negligible compared to an idle chrono, but it is something. Things don't start moving by magic. More torque requires more energy. If you're riding a bike uphill, you require more torque to travel the same distance. And it requires more power to do that. More energy means higher power consumption rate. That's the way my engineering brain analyzes it. Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the way chrono's work.
Click to expand...
IMO there is no power reserve issue with a running chronometer. Yes, it will consume some power, but, that is not an issue.
If you imagine a very basic watch with just a minute and a hour hand, then add complications. Adding a second hand consumes some power. Adding a date consumes some power. Add a running chronometer and it will consume some power. But none are an issue, it just means a bit more winding up [either by hand or by the hammer of an automatic].
 
#18 · (Edited)
MissileExpert said:
Not sure how you can't consume more power when you are driving more hands when the chrono is activated. With more parts moving, more power is consumed. It may be negligible compared to an idle chrono, but it is something. Things don't start moving by magic. More torque requires more energy. If you're riding a bike uphill, you require more torque to travel the same distance. And it requires more power to do that. More energy means higher power consumption rate. That's the way my engineering brain analyzes it. Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding the way chrono's work.
Click to expand...
The mainspring barrel doesn't work like a fuel tank. It won't drain faster when the movement requires more torque, but it may come to a halt preemptively, with some energy left in it, which it could tap into if the chrono wasn't running.

The barrel is a wheel with a fixed gear ratio. You wind it a certain number of turns, and that is directly proportional to a certain number of turns of all the hands, meaning a certain length of time. The escapement stops the gear train dead 6 or 8 times per second. Then it releases another tooth on the escape wheel and the mainspring torque is either strong enough to advance the wheels by one step, or it isn't. Unless the mainspring is on very low power, there's always enough torque available to power the time keeping function plus the chrono.

In fact, lysanderxiii explains it a lot better in this thread:
www.watchuseek.com

Does engaging the chrono's really impact power...

One might think it does, but it doesn't make sense. If the spring is wound, it is still essentially fixed. So you are guaranteed a certain number of balance wheel oscillations & escapement steps for each full wind irrespective of how much load is on the entire mechanism. The watch will just...
www.watchuseek.com www.watchuseek.com
 
#19 ·
jmerino7 said:
I have seen 24 hour chronographs (for the time-telling only) but all have 12 hour registers for timing. There are 30 minute and 45 minute counters as well, but nothing exceeding 12 hour recording.

Thanks. View attachment 16561191
Click to expand...
A 24 hour watch would drive me crazy!
 
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#20 ·
ffritz said:
The mainspring barrel doesn't work like a fuel tank. It won't drain faster when the movement requires more torque, but it may come to a halt preemptively, with some energy left in it, which it could tap into if the chrono wasn't running.

The barrel is a wheel with a fixed gear ratio. You wind it a certain number of turns, and that is directly proportional to a certain number of turns of all the hands, meaning a certain length of time. The escapement stops the gear train dead 6 or 8 times per second. Then it releases another tooth on the escape wheel and the mainspring torque is either strong enough to advance the wheels by one step, or it isn't. Unless the mainspring is on very low power, there's always enough torque available to power the time keeping function plus the chrono.

In fact, lysanderxiii explains it a lot better in this thread:
www.watchuseek.com

Does engaging the chrono's really impact power...

One might think it does, but it doesn't make sense. If the spring is wound, it is still essentially fixed. So you are guaranteed a certain number of balance wheel oscillations & escapement steps for each full wind irrespective of how much load is on the entire mechanism. The watch will just...
www.watchuseek.com www.watchuseek.com
Click to expand...
lysanderxiii actually proves my point. His graph shows power reserve is depleted faster when the chronograph is running and he actually says, "the spring just reaches a point where it can no longer supply enough power to run the movement sooner."
 
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