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What is Horology?

  • Horology is the art of making mechanical watches

    Votes: 33 29%

  • Horology is the science of measuring the time resulting in an instrument i.e. a watch

    Votes: 79 71%
  • Total voters
    112
81 - 95 of 95 Posts
#81 ·
cheu_f50 said:
you look silly because I did not make an incorrect statement.

Title of Post and Poll
View attachment 17069620

My response
View attachment 17069622

If anyone take exception to the fact that the discussion of horology is focused on mechanical watches, please feel free to express that to the OP.
Click to expand...
The OP was incorrect, but how does that change the fact that you made an incorrect statement as well?
 
#83 ·
cheu_f50 said:
Let's see ... maybe you missed the bit at the end where I said "AND MANY MANY MORE". So my statement is not incorrect after all. you looked silly in the Rolex robbery thread, and you look silly here. It's common sense.

View attachment 17069657
Click to expand...
You said the following:

“Horology is the STUDY of making mechanical watches, which includes accuracy as one of the many considerations.”

As many people have pointed out, this is not an accurate statement. The “many more” statement you made in the next sentence does not change the incorrectness of the first sentence.

Sometimes we are wrong and the best thing to do is just admit it and say “I stand corrected.” Twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to avoid being wrong is silly, petty and immature.
 
#84 ·
chillwill120 said:
You said the following:

“Horology is the STUDY of making mechanical watches, which includes accuracy as one of the many considerations.”

As many people have pointed out, this is not an accurate statement. The “many more” statement you made in the next sentence does not change the incorrectness of the first sentence.

Sometimes we are wrong and the best thing to do is just admit it and say “I stand corrected.” Twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to avoid being wrong is silly, petty and immature.
Click to expand...
Why did you feel the need to cut off part of what I said in my post to spin the narrative? 😆

You are so silly. I can see why you would misunderstand if you don't actually read what was written. No need to shift the blame to others if you fail to read.
 
Discussion starter · #86 · (Edited)
ffritz said:
^^ This.

Excellent example to show that words change their meaning over time. Astrology used to be a scientific method. Now we don't consider it as one any longer.

The science of measuring time is called chronometry. When we speak of horology today, we mean the art of clock- and watchmaking. That doesn't necessarily mean mechanical watches only, but I'd be surprised if people working on atomic clocks would call themselves researchers in horology.

So, I'll go with Wikipedia rather than a single line in a dictionary:

"Chronometry (from Greek χρόνος chronos, "time" and μέτρον metron, "measure") is the science of the measurement of time, or timekeeping.[1] Chronometry provides a standard of measurement for time, and therefore serves as a significant reference for many and various fields of science.

The importance of the accuracy and reliability of measuring time provides a standardized unit for chronometric experiments for the modern world, and more specifically scientific research. Despite the coincidental identicality of worldwide units of time, time produces a measurement of change and is a variable in many experiments. Therefore, time is an essential part of many areas of science.

It should not to be confused with chronology, the science of locating events in time, which often relies upon it. Also, of similarity to chronometry is horology, the study of time, however it is commonly used specifically with reference to the mechanical instruments created to keep time, with examples such as stopwatches, clocks, and hourglasses. Chronometry is utilised in many areas, and its fields are often derived from aspects of other areas in science, for example geochronometry, combining geology and chronometry."

The British Horological Institute doesn't study atomic clocks, and neither does the Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie.
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Thanks Fritz. IMO the terms you provided the definitions for are well understood and established.
With one exception IMO - the term Horology. Hence my poll. Some believe it is the art of making mechanical watch, others it more about how to measure time and build an instrument to do so. The latter therefore would consider all the instruments of measuring time in the scope. Including quartz, atomic, etc.
To highlight the differences in what horology is, interestingly enough, if you look at the courses offered by the two Institutions you provided the links to, the British Horological Institute clearly has offering for quartz watches although majority of the courses offered are mechanical watch as well as craftsmanship related. Here is the list:
build your own watch
service & repair of quartz watches
servicing & repair of manual winding watches
service and correcting faults in an automatic watch
servicing & correcting faults in a chronograph
micromechanics masterclass – making a balance staff
service & repair your own clock
the repair, restoration and conservation of antique clocks
engineers’ small lathe, drilling and milling machines
making small components
servicing & correcting faults in a single-train clock (with platform escapement) - d3
servicing & correcting faults in a two-train rack striking clock (d9)
service & repair of cylinder & lever escapement platforms
watchmakers' lathe & graver turning
wheel and pinion cutting & making fly cutters

On the other hand, the offering from Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie is limited to mechanical watch related topics only.
Chrono
Timezone
Tourbillon
Striking
Calendar
Jewelry

I have no doubts that the words Horology and esp. High Horology among mechanical watch enthusiasts are more often than not to be defined as an art of making mechanical watch. But nevertheless the poll results suggested that majority of the WUS members may think differently. It is interesting to see how we here understand the word.

I did not provide my position except by my vote, but let me say that after I learned about HAQ challenges I started undoubtedly refer to them as in the Horology scope. And if you look at other approaches (Spring drive, GPS, Atomic, Radio controlled, battery/no battery quartz etc.) one may start appreciate the effort and innovation as well as the beauty of proposed designs as much as many aspects of mechanical watch designs.
 
#87 ·
cooma said:
Well, quartz watches/clocks are also a part of the horology. So are atomic clocks, which are then "more efficient" part of horology.

While mechanical watches and clocks are mostly about the part of horology figured out in 1700 and 1800 century, it is still evolving in it's own way even if it's not about to make "efficiently" as precise watch/clock as one can. There are still scientific point of views among artistic ones in mechanical clocks and watches.
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Well,
cooma said:
Well, quartz watches/clocks are also a part of the horology. So are atomic clocks, which are then "more efficient" part of horology.

While mechanical watches and clocks are mostly about the part of horology figured out in 1700 and 1800 century, it is still evolving in it's own way even if it's not about to make "efficiently" as precise watch/clock as one can. There are still scientific point of views among artistic ones in mechanical clocks and watches.
Click to expand...
l
 
#89 · (Edited)
horology is the study or the measurement of time... High Horology is the art of making fine mechanical watches (the hobby I enjoy)... otherwise why not use my iPhone to tell the most accurate time possible under $10,000.
 
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#90 ·
SolarPower said:
Thanks Fritz. IMO the terms you provided the definitions for are well understood and established.
With one exception IMO - the term Horology. Hence my poll. Some believe it is the art of making mechanical watch, others it more about how to measure time and build an instrument to do so. The latter therefore would consider all the instruments of measuring time in the scope. Including quartz, atomic, etc.
To highlight the differences in what horology is, interestingly enough, if you look at the courses offered by the two Institutions you provided the links to, the British Horological Institute clearly has offering for quartz watches although majority of the courses offered are mechanical watch as well as craftsmanship related. Here is the list:
build your own watch
service & repair of quartz watches
servicing & repair of manual winding watches
service and correcting faults in an automatic watch
servicing & correcting faults in a chronograph
micromechanics masterclass – making a balance staff
service & repair your own clock
the repair, restoration and conservation of antique clocks
engineers’ small lathe, drilling and milling machines
making small components
servicing & correcting faults in a single-train clock (with platform escapement) - d3
servicing & correcting faults in a two-train rack striking clock (d9)
service & repair of cylinder & lever escapement platforms
watchmakers' lathe & graver turning
wheel and pinion cutting & making fly cutters

On the other hand, the offering from Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie is limited to mechanical watch related topics only.
Chrono
Timezone
Tourbillon
Striking
Calendar
Jewelry

I have no doubts that the words Horology and esp. High Horology among mechanical watch enthusiasts are more often than not to be defined as an art of making mechanical watch. But nevertheless the poll results suggested that majority of the WUS members may think differently. It is interesting to see how we here understand the word.

I did not provide my position except by my vote, but let me say that after I learned about HAQ challenges I started undoubtedly refer to them as in the Horology scope. And if you look at other approaches (Spring drive, GPS, Atomic, Radio controlled, battery/no battery quartz etc.) one may start appreciate the effort and innovation as well as the beauty of proposed designs as much as many aspects of mechanical watch designs.
Click to expand...
Mechanical watches and clocks, tuning fork movements, quartz watches, spring drive, that's all horology to me. In the end, even the frequency of a quartz watch is defined by a mechanical(!) element, namely the tiny little vibrating metal tuning fork inside the quartz crystal. It's that tuning fork that gives the beat, the quartz crystal only keeps it going. So to me, all this epic emotional battle of mechanical vs. quartz is pretty pointless and I don't see any reason to draw a line there.

So, I would rather make the distinction between tools intended to display the time in people's everyday life, and timekeeping in general, including nanosecond precise measuring instruments like atomic clocks. That latter science is chronometry, not horology.
 
Discussion starter · #91 ·
ffritz said:
Mechanical watches and clocks, tuning fork movements, quartz watches, spring drive, that's all horology to me. In the end, even the frequency of a quartz watch is defined by a mechanical(!) element, namely the tiny little vibrating metal tuning fork inside the quartz crystal. It's that tuning fork that gives the beat, the quartz crystal only keeps it going. So to me, all this epic emotional battle of mechanical vs. quartz is pretty pointless and I don't see any reason to draw a line there.

So, I would rather make the distinction between tools intended to display the time in people's everyday life, and timekeeping in general, including nanosecond precise measuring instruments like atomic clocks. That latter science is chronometry, not horology.
Click to expand...
Very well said.
 
#92 ·
chillwill120 said:
You said the following:

“Horology is the STUDY of making mechanical watches, which includes accuracy as one of the many considerations.”

As many people have pointed out, this is not an accurate statement. The “many more” statement you made in the next sentence does not change the incorrectness of the first sentence.

Sometimes we are wrong and the best thing to do is just admit it and say “I stand corrected.” Twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to avoid being wrong is silly, petty and immature.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected. Nothing in particular but just want to have one in the bank in case.
 
#93 ·
ffritz said:
Also, of similarity to chronometry is horology, the study of time, however it is commonly used specifically with reference to the mechanical instruments created to keep time, with examples such as stopwatches, clocks, and hourglasses.
Click to expand...
SpeedFreek67 said:
I'm interested in what it is about time that horology studies, apart from various methods of measuring it.
Click to expand...
I keep seeing definitions that horology is the study of time, but I have yet to find out what that means, exactly. So far, the only answers I have had have referred to the nuts and bolts of measuring time, rather than the study of time itself, which is usually attempted by physicists (hint: none of them have solved it yet, we have no theory of time).

I mean, I know horology deals with the history of timekeeping, (another way of saying measuring time).

It's just the measuring time, isn't it?
 
#94 ·
The watch nerds have put too much emphasis on the nerd at this point. The timepiece I strap to my wrist is it's own small part of the totality of horology. KISS
 
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Discussion starter · #95 ·
SpeedFreek67 said:
I keep seeing definitions that horology is the study of time, but I have yet to find out what that means, exactly. So far, the only answers I have had have referred to the nuts and bolts of measuring time, rather than the study of time itself, which is usually attempted by physicists (hint: none of them have solved it yet, we have no theory of time).

I mean, I know horology deals with the history of timekeeping, (another way of saying measuring time).

It's just the measuring time, isn't it?
Click to expand...
It sure is. The Wikipedia exact quote is:
Horology (lit. 'the study of time'; related to Latin horologium; from Ancient Greek ὡρολόγιον (hōrológion) 'instrument for telling the hour'; from ὥρα (hṓra) 'hour, time', interfix -o-, and suffix -logy)[1][2] is the study of the measurement of time.
So it does not say it is indeed study of time. It just provides the linguistic root. The definition which obviously correct is the study of the measurement of time.
 
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SolarPower
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