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What determines orientation of crown logo?

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thetimebandit

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Is the position of the logo on the crown determined by the threading on the case or the threading on the stem of the crown? I am wondering if a crown is replaced on a watch, will it come back looking the same?

Bonus question is what makes it so difficult to make all of them the same? I have read many times that is really isn’t possible, but the level of precision in all other aspects of watchmaking seem just as impossible to me!
 
#2 ·
Clocking screws and threads is challenging but its hardly impossible.
 
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#3 ·
thetimebandit said:
Is the position of the logo on the crown determined by the threading on the case or the threading on the stem of the crown? I am wondering if a crown is replaced on a watch, will it come back looking the same?
Click to expand...
It's determined by a complex interaction of threading in the case, on the outside of the crown tube and the threading inside the crown. Matching them properly during milling would require more exact positioning than might be considered worthwhile. As all these positions are also influenced by the thickness of seals between case and tube as well as inside the crown it might even be properly alignable just for some time until the seal (the crown one) becomes compressed and worn from repeated tightening and loosening.
 
#4 ·
Would think it would make more sense to make a blank, screw it down, mark it, and then mill/etch the logo after, or do it while it's screwed down on the case.

But if it were that easy I guess they would just do it (either way).
 
#7 ·
LosAngelesTimer said:
Clocking screws and threads is challenging but its hardly impossible.
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Until the threads and surfaces wear down a little and the formerly aligned crown logo is askew..

Clocking screws can be done, but it's hardly practical on threaded joints that are frequently loosened and tightened again.
 
#8 ·
Another OCD after the "seconds hand not hitting all markers" problem?
 
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#10 ·
thetimebandit said:
Bonus question is what makes it so difficult to make all of them the same? I have read many times that is really isn’t possible, but the level of precision in all other aspects of watchmaking seem just as impossible to me!
Click to expand...
The tolerances are too small to make them all the same. Let's look at a practical example. I would say you'll notice if a crown with logo is off by 5°. See the illustration below, that dash and crown is tilted by 5° compared to the watch case. It's not off by much, but I think many people would see it.

Image


That case has the proportions of a 40mm x 11mm watch with an 8mm diameter crown. It would typically have something like a metric M3 thread or so, which has a pitch of 0.5mm. So, a full rotation (360°) of the crown moves it 0.5mm closer to the case or away from it. Consequently, 5° of rotation only move it by 0.007mm, or 7 microns. Just super tiny imperfections or wear and tear from use would easily screw the alignment up (pun intended).
 
#14 ·
My Longines Hydroconquest pretty much aligned when it was new. Maybe a slight bit off. But as it's aged, the crown becomes less and less aligned when it's screwed down as tightly as it can go. Threads wear down with age.

Historically speaking, crowns would generally be replaced when the watch was serviced because they saw a lot of wear and tear. Either the watches were handwound, so at least daily wear, or the automatics were adjusted or also handwound or whatever. I don't know what brands started putting logos on their crowns and when, but I've seen countless older watches with just a plain crown. They either came that way originally or were serviced without a manufacturers crown.

Just another aspect of watch development that has become more jewelry and decoration than practical and functional.
 
#15 ·
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#17 ·
Rolex actually patented a solution to this problem, but it’s yet to be widely adopted:

US20130114383A1 - Watch case including an orientation memory crown - Google Patents

A watch case comprising: a middle ( 3 ), a first tube ( 1 ) provided with first indexing elements ( 1 a ), a control crown (C) including: a cap ( 4 ) having a distinctive sign (S) on a front face ( 4 ′), and a bush ( 5 ) intended to be connected to the movement of the...
patents.google.com
 
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#18 ·
ffritz said:
The tolerances are too small to make them all the same. Let's look at a practical example. I would say you'll notice if a crown with logo is off by 5°. See the illustration below, that dash and crown is tilted by 5° compared to the watch case. It's not off by much, but I think many people would see it.

View attachment 17715821

That case has the proportions of a 40mm x 11mm watch with an 8mm diameter crown. It would typically have something like a metric M3 thread or so, which has a pitch of 0.5mm. So, a full rotation (360°) of the crown moves it 0.5mm closer to the case or away from it. Consequently, 5° of rotation only move it by 0.007mm, or 7 microns. Just super tiny imperfections or wear and tear from use would easily screw the alignment up (pun intended).
Click to expand...
^This
 
#19 ·
thetimebandit said:
Is the position of the logo on the crown determined by the threading on the case or the threading on the stem of the crown? I am wondering if a crown is replaced on a watch, will it come back looking the same?
Click to expand...
Both... They are both threaded so any variation on either side is going to change the alignment. Just stop worrying and learn to love it.

It never fails to amaze me how no matter how high up the luxury ladder we go we can find fault somewhere, even if we have to make it up. I think it's something to do with the idea that we think these things are going to make us feel happy and fulfilled and when they don't we have to figure out why.

BTW that's not a dig at you... I do it too. Just a weird side effect of this obsession.
 
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#20 ·
CLP said:
Would think it would make more sense to make a blank, screw it down, mark it, and then mill/etch the logo after, or do it while it's screwed down on the case.

But if it were that easy I guess they would just do it (either way).
Click to expand...
That's viable when producing very low quantities. It's very labor intensive and not conducive to high volume production.

It also means each crown and case is a matched set, which means any spares would need to be specifically made to the watch. Since crowns and stems are wear items that are frequently replaced in service, this would drive service price and time up considerably.
 
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