WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Sellita calibers and important Maisons

Jump to Latest

What would you do?

  • I will buy it anyway, if I love the Maison and the watch.

    Votes: 8 32%

  • Don't worry, I'll go with Longines, Nomos etc..

    Votes: 13 52%

  • I will file a class action so that these brands fit at least one Sellita Top Grade

    Votes: 4 16%
  • Total voters
    25
21 - 40 of 69 Posts
#21 ·
Reconquista said:
You said Nomos uses sellita movements? I don't think they do anymore. In my opinion I wanted in house but then consider long term ownership. When I pass my watches onto my children they will have a much easier time finding parts and craftsman able to repair the watch. In addition they will probably actually fix the watch since it won't cost $5000 to fix it 30 years from now. I have an in house caliber Nomos and chronometer Sellita movement. I think they are pretty on par and honestly got the watches more cause they looked cool.
Click to expand...
Indeed, Nomos never have had a single Sellita in any of their models. They used Peseux movements in the past but now they manufacture everything (including their movements) in-house (with the exception of the balance springs and the rubies if I remember correctly).
 
  • Like
  • Helpful
Reactions: JSnipes, John Price and Reconquista
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#22 ·
Jonathan T said:
This is a relevant thread for me. I've been eyeing a Cartier and drawn to the new Tank Francaise Large. Only thing that nags me is their use of a Sellita based movement.
Instead of their in-house 1847MC movement. I know the Sellit amovement won't cause any trouble but it nags me at that price point. I know...it's a Cartier.
Click to expand...
I think you should just pull the trigger. You won't be looking at the movement anyways. The Cartier Tank Francaise is a beautiful watch. I also feel like historically Cartier has never made movements a focal point of their watch design language. They have always focused on super refined cases and dials that exude elegance. Good luck.
 
#25 ·
b0fh said:
your etacron is all the way up to +
that would bother me to no end :D
Click to expand...
Your wrist, your choice. :)

I bought that watch for its unique dial, not for where the regulation points.

Image

Image


Besides, what you say isn't even true. You just don't see the full scale in that pic. Here is a different one to illustrate.

Image


Meh. Haters gonna hate..
 
#26 ·
Speaking of accuracy: Last Monday, I switched to a watch from a Swiss luxury watch manufacturer that is now 25 years and a few months old and whose last revision was a good four and a half years ago. The watch has been worn continuously since Monday lunchtime and now, just three days later, shows an error of about 1.5 seconds.
The ETA 2982-A2 (IWC caliber designation: 37524) working in the watch is not COSC certified.
Image

Incidentally, the list price of the watch in 1998 was at the level of a Rolex Sea-Dweller 4000 and it was about twice as expensive as an Omega Seamaster Professional with the Omega caliber 1120 aka ETA 2892-A2 COSC. In tests by renowned watch magazines, the Aquatimer was rated as equivalent to the Rolex Sea-Dweller – here in this forum, the watch would probably only be disqualified because of the movement…

But the hype surrounding in-house movements is actually a good thing. The more wave riders follow this nonsense and avoid the really good watches with the really good mass calibers, the easier (and cheaper) it is for the true enthusiast, who knows that a watch is more than just a movement and who doesn't care about the pissing contest at the regulars' table ("... but mine has an in-house movement, yours only has an ETA! Gotcha!"), to get these really good watches with the really good mass calibers.
... and when those wave riders has to take his luxury watch with the oh-so-great in-house movement in for an overhaul shortly after the warranty expires and the cost estimate is the equivalent of a brand new Longines and he has to wait 36 weeks for his watch to be returned, then threads are opened about how outrageous the manufacturers are and what a rip-off they are running. This is going to be fun!
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Moonshine Runner said:
Where on earth did you get these values from?
Quality levelBearing jewels Balance wheelHairspringRegulationAverage daily rate
StandardPolyrubyNickel gold-platedNivarox 2in 2 positions-12 / +12 s/d
ElaboréPolyrubyNickel gold-platedNivarox 2in 3 positions-7 / +7 s/d
TopRed rubyGlucydur gold-platedAnachronin 5 positions-4 / +4 s/d
ChronomètreRed rubyGlucydur gold-platedAnachronin 5 positionsCOSC

Apart from that, ETA / Sellita also manufacture according to customer specifications, so there are an infinite number of possible combinations. In my opinion, far too much attention is paid to the movements used and it is not taken into account that “in-house” does not always mean “better” – see, for example, the date problems with the Kenissi GMT movements.
… and anyone who has ever paid 1,600.00 euros for the overhaul of a watch with an in-house caliber will certainly appreciate the ETA 2892 / Selitta SW 300, which the watchmaker on the corner can overhaul for a tenth of the price.
Click to expand...
Oris' specifications for the accuracy of non-internal calibers are listed on their site.
And it uses standard SW200/1.

Image
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
Reconquista said:
You said Nomos uses sellita movements? I don't think they do anymore. In my opinion I wanted in house but then consider long term ownership. When I pass my watches onto my children they will have a much easier time finding parts and craftsman able to repair the watch. In addition they will probably actually fix the watch since it won't cost $5000 to fix it 30 years from now. I have an in house caliber Nomos and chronometer Sellita movement. I think they are pretty on par and honestly got the watches more cause they looked cool.
Click to expand...
In fact Nomos doesn't use Sellita, it was my writing error which I corrected.
 
#30 ·
Moonshine Runner said:
Where on earth did you get these values from?
Quality levelBearing jewels Balance wheelHairspringRegulationAverage daily rate
StandardPolyrubyNickel gold-platedNivarox 2in 2 positions-12 / +12 s/d
ElaboréPolyrubyNickel gold-platedNivarox 2in 3 positions-7 / +7 s/d
TopRed rubyGlucydur gold-platedAnachronin 5 positions-4 / +4 s/d
ChronomètreRed rubyGlucydur gold-platedAnachronin 5 positionsCOSC

Apart from that, ETA / Sellita also manufacture according to customer specifications, so there are an infinite number of possible combinations. In my opinion, far too much attention is paid to the movements used and it is not taken into account that “in-house” does not always mean “better” – see, for example, the date problems with the Kenissi GMT movements.
… and anyone who has ever paid 1,600.00 euros for the overhaul of a watch with an in-house caliber will certainly appreciate the ETA 2892 / Selitta SW 300, which the watchmaker on the corner can overhaul for a tenth of the price.
Click to expand...
Oris, among others, guarantees accuracy of the watch looser than Sellita or ETA spec for the movement. This gives the watchmaker some wiggle room in case something gets nudged during casing or in shipping and handling. As well as the fact that ETA and Sellita only guarantee something like 95% of movements produced meet those advertised specs (if you read the fine print). Widening the "acceptable" accuracy reduces the number of watches rejected at final QC and sent back to be regulated. Also dispels the notion that Oris (or any other watchmaker using broader accuracy tolerances than ETA or Sellita's) is regulating or tuning up each and every of their Sellita or ETA movements to perform better than the OEM.
 
#31 ·
oprhodium39 said:
Sellita is OK, as long as we are talking about the SW300. (SW200 is a different story...)
Click to expand...
Both movements have (unfortunately) inherited the weaknesses of their predecessors, the ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2892-A2. In the SW200.1 it is the increased wear of crown wheels, ratchet wheels and their bearings due to excessive manual winding and in the SW300.1 the relatively poor winding performance of the automatic. If you consider the SW200 to be inadequate, then the ETA 2824 should be too in your eyes.


Bicilindrico11 said:
Oris' specifications for the accuracy of non-internal calibers are listed on their site.
And it uses standard SW200/1.

View attachment 18072408
Click to expand...
Interesting. The German site literally says:

«Wie genau laufen Oris-Uhren mit Sellita-Werken?
Uhren mit Oris Calibre 733 sind auf den Bereich von +7/-12 Sekunden Gangabweichung pro Tag eingestellt. Die tatsächliche Genauigkeit hängt vom persönlichen Verhalten der Trägerin oder des Trägers ab. Bewegungen, Temperatur und Tragedauer sind alles Faktoren, die die Ganggenauigkeit beeinflussen. Wenn sich herausstellt, dass Ihre Uhr eine geringere Genauigkeit aufweist, auch wenn Sie sie regelmässig und unter normalen Bedingungen tragen, kann sie in einem von Oris zugelassenen Service Center eingestellt werden.»

Translation:
«How accurate are Oris watches with Sellita movements?
Watches with Oris Caliber 733 are set to the range of +7/-12 seconds rate deviation per day. The actual accuracy depends on the wearer's personal behavior. Movements, temperature and wearing time are all factors that influence the rate accuracy. If it turns out that your watch is less accurate, even if you wear it regularly and under normal conditions, it can be adjusted at an Oris-approved service center.»

.

As Oris uses standard quality Sellita movements except for the chronometers…

«Welche Version des Sellita-Werks SW 200-1 verwenden Sie: Standard, Elaboré oder Top?
Bei den meisten Modellen verwenden wir die Standard-Version. Die Chronometer bilden dabei eine Ausnahme. Bei der Chronometer-Version werden hochwertigere Teile verwendet, wodurch wir den strengeren Anforderungen des Prüfzentrums entsprechen bzw. die Toleranzen einhalten können.»

Translation:
«Which version of the Sellita SW 200-1 movement do you use: Standard, Elaboré or Top?
We use the standard version for most models. The chronometers are an exception. The chronometer version uses higher quality parts, which allows us to meet the stricter requirements of the test center and maintain tolerances.»


… these are – at least according to the German website – readjusted by Oris, because the Oris specifications are somewhat stricter than those of Sellita.

Irrespective of this, however, I cannot imagine any renowned Swiss watch manufacturer accepting tolerances of 35 seconds for its watches. That is the level of cheap Seiko or Citizen supermarket watches, but certainly not of a quality manufacturer that managed to build the simplest pin lever movements with incredible precision under the Swiss watch statute of the time.






Edit: The English-language website also mentions +7/-12 sec/d.
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ffritz and Buramu
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#32 ·
Moonshine Runner said:
Both movements have (unfortunately) inherited the weaknesses of their predecessors, the ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2892-A2. In the SW200.1 it is the increased wear of crown wheels, ratchet wheels and their bearings due to excessive manual winding and in the SW300.1 the relatively poor winding performance of the automatic. If you consider the SW200 to be inadequate, then the ETA 2824 should be too in your eyes.
Click to expand...
I know - going forward I will avoid buying watches with 2824-originated movements (ET2824, SW200, STP1-11 etc.) due to manual winding issues, poor automatic winding performance of 2893/SW300 is not an issue for me.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Moonshine Runner said:
Both movements have (unfortunately) inherited the weaknesses of their predecessors, the ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2892-A2. In the SW200.1 it is the increased wear of crown wheels, ratchet wheels and their bearings due to excessive manual winding and in the SW300.1 the relatively poor winding performance of the automatic. If you consider the SW200 to be inadequate, then the ETA 2824 should be too in your eyes.



Interesting. The German site literally says:

«Wie genau laufen Oris-Uhren mit Sellita-Werken?
Uhren mit Oris Calibre 733 sind auf den Bereich von +7/-12 Sekunden Gangabweichung pro Tag eingestellt. Die tatsächliche Genauigkeit hängt vom persönlichen Verhalten der Trägerin oder des Trägers ab. Bewegungen, Temperatur und Tragedauer sind alles Faktoren, die die Ganggenauigkeit beeinflussen. Wenn sich herausstellt, dass Ihre Uhr eine geringere Genauigkeit aufweist, auch wenn Sie sie regelmässig und unter normalen Bedingungen tragen, kann sie in einem von Oris zugelassenen Service Center eingestellt werden.»

Translation:
«How accurate are Oris watches with Sellita movements?
Watches with Oris Caliber 733 are set to the range of +7/-12 seconds rate deviation per day. The actual accuracy depends on the wearer's personal behavior. Movements, temperature and wearing time are all factors that influence the rate accuracy. If it turns out that your watch is less accurate, even if you wear it regularly and under normal conditions, it can be adjusted at an Oris-approved service center.»

.

As Oris uses standard quality Sellita movements except for the chronometers…

«Welche Version des Sellita-Werks SW 200-1 verwenden Sie: Standard, Elaboré oder Top?
Bei den meisten Modellen verwenden wir die Standard-Version. Die Chronometer bilden dabei eine Ausnahme. Bei der Chronometer-Version werden hochwertigere Teile verwendet, wodurch wir den strengeren Anforderungen des Prüfzentrums entsprechen bzw. die Toleranzen einhalten können.»

Translation:
«Which version of the Sellita SW 200-1 movement do you use: Standard, Elaboré or Top?
We use the standard version for most models. The chronometers are an exception. The chronometer version uses higher quality parts, which allows us to meet the stricter requirements of the test center and maintain tolerances.»


… these are – at least according to the German website – readjusted by Oris, because the Oris specifications are somewhat stricter than those of Sellita.

Irrespective of this, however, I cannot imagine any renowned Swiss watch manufacturer accepting tolerances of 35 seconds for its watches. That is the level of cheap Seiko or Citizen supermarket watches, but certainly not of a quality manufacturer that managed to build the simplest pin lever movements with incredible precision under the Swiss watch statute of the time.






Edit: The English-language website also mentions +7/-12 sec/d.
.
Click to expand...
This is a bit contradictory, because only for the caliber 733 (SW200/1) it mentions +7/-12 spd, then it says that all non-chronometer watches -5/+30 (all except the 400 series).
So when will the house tolerance be??

However, it has been established in this case that Oris does not regulate its calibers as they arrive at the factory, and this is a very bad thing for a renowned company.

My Big Crown PD was a fixed +15 spd right out of the box, so much so that I wanted to send it back for warranty service, then after a few months luckily it dropped to +8 spd and I'm fine with that now, however, it was a fluke.
 
#34 ·
I’ve built from scratch over a dozen watches using various grades of ETA 2824, Selitta SW200, and La Joux-Perret G100 from standard to top grade.

In my view the La Joux-Perret movement is vastly superior to the the 2824/SW200 and its copies. No fragile hand winding issues. No helicopter rotor. No reversing gear issues. No fragile keyless works. Just a smooth, solid, well running piece of machinery.

And 68 hour power reserve.

The positional variance and accuracy achievable on top grade G100 is as good or better than top / chronometer grade 2824. (I have posted proof of this in other threads).

Serviceability of these movements is not a big issue either. They are almost exactly the same as the Miyota 9015 which pretty much all independent watchmakers know how to service, with many parts interchangeable - I have modified La Joux Perret movements and repaired one using Miyota 9015 parts. Center wheel is different, barrel and mainspring are different, and balance wheel assembly is different (with addition of a fine adjustment regulation screw which the 9015 does not have). Otherwise it's basically a Swiss made, higher quality and upgraded 9015.

I know the movement hasn't been around for that long, but my opinion any manufacturer that chooses Selitta over LJP is doing it wrong.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Just to add to the above, here are the timekeeping results on two of my builds using La Joux-Perret G100 (I have 3 others all with the same level of accuracy after regulation).

To put it controversially: if regulated well, the positional accuracy and power reserve of these movements can stand toe to toe with the Rolex caliber 3235. And if they prove as reliable and durable as the 9015 they are based on (which I expect they will), they can stand toe to toe on all fronts (except for the nicer, more refined winding feel on the Rolex caliber).

Example #1

DIAL UP:

View attachment 17666263

CROWN UP:

View attachment 17666265

CROWN DOWN:

View attachment 17666267

Crown Left:

View attachment 17666270

Crown right:


View attachment 17666272


Example #2

DIAL UP

View attachment 17540224

DIAL DOWN:

View attachment 17540228


CROWN UP

View attachment 17540229

CROWN DOWN:

View attachment 17540233

12:00 DOWN

View attachment 17540237
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
dood said:
Just to add to the above, here are the timekeeping results on two of my builds using La Joux-Perret G100 (I have 3 others all with the same level of accuracy after regulation).

To put it controversially: if regulated well, the positional accuracy and power reserve of these movements can stand toe to toe with the Rolex caliber 3235. And if they prove as reliable and durable as the 9015 they are based on (which I expect they will), they can stand toe to toe on all fronts (except for the nicer, more refined winding feel on the Rolex caliber).

Example #1

DIAL UP:

View attachment 17666263

CROWN UP:

View attachment 17666265

CROWN DOWN:

View attachment 17666267

Crown Left:

View attachment 17666270

Crown right:


View attachment 17666272


Example #2

DIAL UP

View attachment 17540224

DIAL DOWN:

View attachment 17540228


CROWN UP

View attachment 17540229

CROWN DOWN:

View attachment 17540233

12:00 DOWN

View attachment 17540237
Click to expand...
Very interesting, the daily spd rate and the amplitude are excellent.
I had already heard good things about this caliber, but I can't find any information regarding the hairspring and balance, materials...
 
#37 ·
Bicilindrico11 said:
Very interesting, the daily spd rate and the amplitude are excellent.
I had already heard good things about this caliber, but I can't find any information regarding the hairspring and balance, materials...
Click to expand...
Here’s some helpful info:

www.thenakedwatchmaker.com

The Naked Watchmaker

G100 automatic calibre (68hour power reserve)
www.thenakedwatchmaker.com www.thenakedwatchmaker.com

The one thing I forgot to mention is automatic winding is unidirectional. But the rotor is made of solid tungsten and really spins and winds excellently.
 
#39 ·
Tarl13 said:
I’ve been saying all over this forum that idk why Oris is so lauded when it charges $2k+ for base grade sellitas in their watches. The Oris lovefest is alien to me.

Like when people say an Aquis is “equal” or “better” than a Longines Hydroconquest. It’s not unless we are talking caliber 400.
Click to expand...
I have similar opinions about Oris and every time I write, people come here and try to trash my opinion. In terms of the Oris pricing, now with the Calibre 400 they are basically matching the Black Bay pricing which again, it is something the market set I would say. Switching gears, I'm actually surprised that many share my Nomos sentiment because again, typically people come here to trash Nomos, low bph bla bla glossing over that they do almost 100% of their movement in-house while others don't come nearly as close.

With regards to Sellita, I have no issue with those movements and pricing wise, that's just a market reality these days as others mentioned. I primarily find two faults with the movement price proposition in that range and none of them have anything to do with the manufacturers. The first one is that unpopular watches, sometimes with cool complications can be found online at the top GM sites for 80% off. So why would I buy a journeyman watch with the Sellita for $2k if I can get a unique watch for the same online. The second one is that if you go and browse watchrecon, these same watches talked about here, even some Nomos are typically going for 1k less than MSRP. So why even bother buying new when you can score a nice piece for almost half the price.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
JSnipes said:
To each their own. As long as it is robust, relatively accurate, and serviceable I could care less about the movement. I buy watches largely based on design. If I like the design and it fits my wrist, lifestyle, & budget then I'm happy.
Click to expand...
So, are you saying that you would buy a watch with the standard Sellita SW200 at 3k?
 
21 - 40 of 69 Posts
About this Discussion
68 Replies
28 Participants
Last post:
Mllcb42
WatchUSeek Watch Forums
posts
24M
members
618K
Since
2005
A forum community dedicated to watch owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about watch collections, displays, watch winders, accessories, classifieds, and more! We welcome all manufacturers including Casio G-Shock, OMEGA, Rolex, Breitling, Rolex and Tudor, Seiko, Grand Seiko and others.
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Public Forum Watches - Private Sellers and Sponsors Affordable watches Dive watches Casio G-Shock