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Norwolf

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hopefully this post isn't click bait, or whore bait, or any kind of debate -- homage or otherwise...

...but, the speed at which the Chinese are upping their quality is amazing. And it's not just one or two brands now -- it's probably closer to ten 10. Where is this trend going...? I don't know... I'm on the fence about Chinese watches -- i have a few and am impressed for the price.

I don't believe it will hurt established brands -- look at Seiko, still pumping out watches with hardlex -- and they seem to be doing fine, but i may be wrong...

I'm linking a YouTube vid that shows some of that quality. Not trying to push or sell anything. Watch it if you want --or don't. I don't give a rats...

 
#2 ·
Norwolf said:
...but, the speed at which the Chinese are upping their quality is amazing. And it's not just one or two brands now -- it's probably closer to ten 10. Where is this trend going...? I don't know... I'm on the fence about Chinese watches -- i have a few and am impressed for the price.
Click to expand...
Excellent and fair observation.
It was only a matter of time before they came up in quality.

I recently saw some watches for sale in the sales corner. I also got a bunch of spam from Jomoshop.
The prices are often laughably absurd, (absurdly high, I mean) given what / how they are, in the context of what 1/10th of that (or less) can get ya now.


PS:
I'm in this game mostly for the pleasure of modding and assembling my own.
So, I also get to see a lot of parts - cases, dials, hands, etc.
Top quality can be had for the right (but still insanely low) prices.

Example: $70 - 120 for a case + bracelet. $40-50 for a dial. $20 - 40 for a handset. $30 - 40 for an NH movement.

For $250 tops, you can have yerself the same grade of a watch that would cost $700 -1,200 depending on the brand name stamped on the dial.
 
#3 ·
In the UK developers are building enormously expensive apartment blocks in parts of London.

Who is buying them?

The Chinese, six at a time.

The ammount of money in China is quite amazing, and some of this is coming from their new and improved watch industry I assume, certainly their electric cars are about to decimate the car markets of other countries.
 
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#4 ·
Norwolf said:
Hopefully this post isn't click bait, or whore bait, or any kind of debate -- homage or otherwise...

...but, the speed at which the Chinese are upping their quality is amazing. And it's not just one or two brands now -- it's probably closer to ten 10. Where is this trend going...? I don't know... I'm on the fence about Chinese watches -- i have a few and am impressed for the price.

I don't believe it will hurt established brands -- look at Seiko, still pumping out watches with hardlex -- and they seem to be doing fine, but i may be wrong...

I'm linking a YouTube vid that shows some of that quality. Not trying to push or sell anything. Watch it if you want --or don't. I don't give a rats...

Click to expand...
I don't think Seestern is any risk to GS. I do however think that the Ali-X brands will become increasing risks to "average" microbrands. I'm not going to speculate on what all of the specific factors were as to why say NTH closed their doors.

However, having owned one that was $750, was it any better than these $250-300 Ali-X divers that are coming out now? Nope, it wasn't. It was made in similar factories, using many of the same standard off the shelf catalog parts that these brands are using.

Being a glorified sketch artist sending designs to Chinese factories to make for you, and then expecting to turn around and charge double or triple what they do - that's going to get increasingly more difficult as time goes on. Being "ok" is not going to be good enough.

I don't think that the Ali brands have caught the best micros, at least not yet. If you're a more average brand though as opposed to a Christopher Ward or Tuseno who have the ability to put "Swiss Made" on their dials, justifying your existence is going to get more and more difficult.

Image
 
#7 ·
OneEyeMan said:
Sorry, I'd never buy a chinese made watch.
It's a political decision on my part.
They already own most of the world and they don't need my help to own the rest.
Click to expand...
This is a valid reason I can also relate to.

However, carrying it out would mean to avoid almost anything we buy. Clothing, all sorts of gear and equipment, electronics, etc., etc., and including Swiss Made watches. According to the rule, up to 40% of their value may be generated outside of Switzerland, so e.g. in China. Which means, you might actually send more of your money to China when you buy a 1000€ Longines (= up to 400€) than when you buy a 200€ Seestern..
 
#8 ·
OneEyeMan said:
Sorry, I'd never buy a chinese made watch.
It's a political decision on my part.
They already own most of the world and they don't need my help to own the rest.
Click to expand...
Hope you're not owning that computer or smartphone you're typing on because that's guaranteed to be made in China.
 
#9 ·
Chinese precision manufacturing is certainly top tier at this point. They can machine parts as well as anyone for cheaper and in greater numbers. I don't think you can argue with that.

Where they lag behind still is in marketing and design. For the most part they're still copying others' homework in those areas. People who spend big money on watches want more than well made parts. They want brand value. That takes a lot more time and work to build. Established brands don't worry about the Chinese brands because they haven't been around long enough to figure that out yet.

As for China owning things, I'm not really worried about that. They have about a decade or two before that whole house of cards collapses. I'm more worried about what happens after that.
 
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#11 ·
I agree with the point that, currently, they are probably hurting the micro brands more than anything. I expect quality to continue up if they are in the game and it appears they may be.
As far as not buying Chinese I always find that laughable because it would be nearly impossible to live. We live in a global economy, like it or not. Unless you're going to go live in an off grid cabin in the woods.
 
#14 ·
People saying that (their quality improving) like it’s surprising is what surprises me.

How hard is it for these companies to focus on upping their game in the quality department when their research and development budget is limited to ripping off other companies intellectual property? That and figuring out what grades of materials they can substitute to save a buck.

I think it’s futile to attempt to 100% avoid buying products from China, but I’ve got no interest in supporting companies that are making their money by ripping off ideas from other companies.

That and I think folks that are buying these watches are kidding themselves if they think there isn’t an adverse impact on established large and “micros” that are within the same “affordables” price range that are attempting to make a living by designing and selling their own watch designs.

Why? There are only so many watches that are going to be sold each year. If you take from legitimate companies, sooner or later they’re going to be impacted.
 
#15 ·
This is one of the two things that is squeezing at the under-$1000 market at the moment. Improving Chinese quality and smartwatches on the other hand.

Probably a reason why brands like Seiko have made a decided effort up-market.
 
#16 ·
Barnaby'sDad said:
People saying that (their quality improving) like it’s surprising is what surprises me.

How hard is it for these companies to focus on upping their game in the quality department when their research and development budget is limited to ripping off other companies intellectual property? That and figuring out what grades of materials they can substitute to save a buck.

I think it’s futile to attempt to 100% avoid buying products from China, but I’ve got no interest in supporting companies that are making their money by ripping off ideas from other companies.

That and I think folks that are buying these watches are kidding themselves if they think there isn’t an adverse impact on established large and “micros” that are within the same “affordables” price range that are attempting to make a living by designing and selling their own watch designs.

Why? There are only so many watches that are going to be sold each year. If you take from legitimate companies, sooner or later they’re going to be impacted.
Click to expand...
I won't buy AliExpress watches for the same reasons. I'm not against all Chinese watches; I have two seagulls and an HKED chronograph. Those are different. Seagull is a legitimate watch manufacturer that has a long history and makes its own movements, like Seiko or Citizen. HKED is owned by a WUS member who wanted to remake one of the prototypes of the historic 1963 Chinese Air Force watch. He did a lot of research to ensure that the design was close to the original, and it is beautifully made.

Brands like San Martin and Pagani are made by....who knows. They use fake European names; one of them the name of a Roman Catholic saint (remember that Catholic believers in China have been persecuted for a long time by the Communist government). I find that distasteful. I'd have more respect for these if they had Chinese names and didn't try to copy others' designs while using psuedo-European names.
 
#17 ·
Norwolf said:
Hopefully this post isn't click bait, or whore bait, or any kind of debate -- homage or otherwise...

...but, the speed at which the Chinese are upping their quality is amazing. And it's not just one or two brands now -- it's probably closer to ten 10. Where is this trend going...? I don't know... I'm on the fence about Chinese watches -- i have a few and am impressed for the price.

I don't believe it will hurt established brands -- look at Seiko, still pumping out watches with hardlex -- and they seem to be doing fine, but i may be wrong...

I'm linking a YouTube vid that shows some of that quality. Not trying to push or sell anything. Watch it if you want --or don't. I don't give a rats...

Click to expand...
You really need to be more discerning about which YouTube influencers you listen to. If you check out The Watcher's videos over the last year, you will discover that almost all of his reviews are based on what is being peddled on AliExpress. This raises the question: is The Watcher being paid to play?

Here is a video from Marc from Long Island Watches discussing this very subject matter:


As for the Chinese upping their game regarding providing quality, there is no denying that some Chinese watchmakers provide excellent quality, but it comes at a higher cost to the customer for their end product. Unfortunately, I don't think the same can be said about the watches being distributed through AliExpress.
 
#18 ·
Well if you support capitalism, it’s part of the game. They are producing quality watches for cheap, that will always be attractive to some people. Chinese audio equipment quality has also risen. Until it’s deemed illegal, I’m afraid this is what we can expect. People often choose less expensive over supporting causes or doing the “right” thing.
 
#20 ·
TgeekB said:
I agree with the point that, currently, they are probably hurting the micro brands more than anything. I expect quality to continue up if they are in the game and it appears they may be.
As far as not buying Chinese I always find that laughable because it would be nearly impossible to live. We live in a global economy, like it or not. Unless you're going to go live in an off grid cabin in the woods.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind a shack on the beach, off the grid. IMHO
 
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