2011 Laco Special Edition Project - GENERAL DISCUSSION

30845 Views 155 Replies 33 Participants Last post by Uwe W., Jan 5, 2012

Uwe W.

Discussion Starter · Apr 11, 2011 (Edited)

This thread is ONLY for comments that pertain to the Special Edition Project but don't fit into any of the other existing threads in this sub-forum.

41 - 60 of 156 Posts

brainless

· #41 · Apr 22, 2011

Hi Uwe,

the case is customized, as are the hands and the dial. We got two backs (see through and solid), two different leather straps with rivets and a nice leather case.
The "modern" 2824-2 was modified: Not automatic but handwound plus hacking second.

Both movements 2824/2801 and Durowe 7425/7525 are used since the early seventies: ETA 2824 was introduced in 1971, Durowe 7425 in 1972.
Both are nearly identical in their size: here you can have a look at
Durowe 7425

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Durowe 7425 (INT)

ETA 2824

bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: ETA 2824

Considering all points written above:Where is that difference of nearly 850,-€? :think:

Volker

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Janne

· #42 · Apr 23, 2011

Brainless, I remember the case was a standard 42mm Laco case.
I am not sure if the surface treatment was different.
And I am lazy to check through all 1000+ posts !

Uwe, any possibility to ask Laco to reconsider the cost? Even with a complex dial, a max cost of 900 - 1000 euro should be possible.

It would be cheaper to buy a 42mm Laco with the standard ETA, and have a watchmaker that advertises here on WUS to make new hands and a new dial, plus modify the movement to same specs as the WUS LE.....

kubelwagen

· #43 · Apr 23, 2011

+1 on the comments re cost, as I find it steep as well. Anyways given that the final design and components are still to be agreed on, its very much wait and see for me. Looking forward to the voting. Cheers

Uwe W.

Discussion Starter · #44 · Apr 23, 2011

Janne said:
Uwe, any possibility to ask Laco to reconsider the cost? Even with a complex dial, a max cost of 900 - 1000 euro should be possible.

I'll bring the dissent being voiced over the price to their attention.

Janne

· #45 · Apr 23, 2011

You can allways tell them that ofr that price we kind of expect some decorations on the movement, blued screws, a porcellain dial and heat blued hands...

redwatch

· #46 · Apr 24, 2011

Janne said:
Uwe, any possibility to ask Laco to reconsider the cost? Even with a complex dial, a max cost of 900 - 1000 euro should be possible.

I agree with the price range. We are not really "creating" a new watch. We basically modify some existing dials and hands. And as long as the NOS movement is working, I don't really care if it is decorated or not. After all, it is not the movement by A. Lange or Patek.

There might be another way to bring down the cost. If we increase the numbers of watches of this limited edition from 50 to 80 or 100, the price per watch will be lower also.

mcfr

· #47 · Apr 24, 2011

The price is ridiculous, ecspacially since it's the starting price.....

Janne

· #48 · Apr 24, 2011

I already wrote this before, if we are really keen to do a "Special" and Laco does not want to give us a fair price, we can always source the required number of Laco watches from an Online source (50 units = big discount) and ask a resident friendly watchmaker to do the hands and dial.
I would think we can buy a 42mm ETA Laco B-uhr for maybe 450 Euro (listprice 490 - approx 10%).

It can be difficult to increase the number of interested to more than 50 people.

Uwe W.

Discussion Starter · #49 · Apr 24, 2011 (Edited)

redwatch said:
I agree with the price range. We are not really "creating" a new watch. We basically modify some existing dials and hands. And as long as the NOS movement is working, I don't really care if it is decorated or not. After all, it is not the movement by A. Lange or Patek.

There might be another way to bring down the cost. If we increase the numbers of watches of this limited edition from 50 to 80 or 100, the price per watch will be lower also.

Just a couple of things I wanted to clear up: the dial and hands are not existing, nor are they being modded. They would be manufactured from scratch especially for this watch. And there is no option to increase the number being produced as there are only a limited number of the NOS movements to begin with.

Uwe W.

Discussion Starter · #50 · Apr 24, 2011

Janne said:
I already wrote this before, if we are really keen to do a "Special" and Laco does not want to give us a fair price, we can always source the required number of Laco watches from an Online source (50 units = big discount) and ask a resident friendly watchmaker to do the hands and dial.
I would think we can buy a 42mm ETA Laco B-uhr for maybe 450 Euro (listprice 490 - approx 10%).

It can be difficult to increase the number of interested to more than 50 people.

I think it's a little unfair to be stomping on Laco - certainly not in their sponsored and official forum. They're a reasonable group of people; I will be discussing the negative reaction to their base price and let's see where that leads to first. I can somewhat understand that they don't want to be caught in the opposite problem where they quote a price that is too low and then everyone freaks out when the price is much higher. Keep in mind that they were hesitant to come up with any price in the first place. The problem with these projects is that often people will suggest all kinds of elaborate specifications for a watch without any conception of the costs involved.

Janne

· #51 · Apr 24, 2011 (Edited)

Sorry to be unfair, but the quoted price is ridiculous.
On the WUS LE, the dial was totally new, from scratch. Font, spacing, thickness of printed parts, lume. Everything.
The hands were 100% custom made too.
Both the Black edged hands, as the second, optional, blued hands.

The engraving was custom too, including the caseback.
The crown was custom made for us.

The movement was modified, the Rotor with associated bridge removed, hacking function added(I think) and the barrell changed (said my watchmaker).

The Laco Forum is supported by WUS, and we members have given Laco a lot of business.
You yourself is a superb customer, I less so. I have bought 3 watches from Laco direct, and had my 55mm restored, so I am not a bad customer myself.

If the cost is not more realistic, it will go the same way as the A-dial LE and the A-11 project.
Which I would hate, as this is a truly fantastic opportunity to not only have a lot of fun, but also creating something unique.

I am in the process of having an Anonimo created with a special, one-off dial, and special hands, made to my spec
Yes, I expect to pay for it, but the end result will not cost me 2.5X a "standard" Anonimo.

And I have not bought an Anonimo previously, so I am not a even a good customer ...

Just my thought, excuse me if I ruffle some feather..

Off to a shower, friends are waiting at the Easter Sunday Brunch!

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StufflerMike

· #52 · Apr 24, 2011

kubelwagen said:
Apologies for a noob question: how does a Laco 69 case look like?

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Reactions: 2

MHe225

· #53 · Apr 24, 2011

I have to say, this is brilliant marketing ...... Laco has found a box with 50 NOS movements in the basement and has no models to put them in. So these are, essentially, a write-off. That story changes completely with the idea of this WUS-special and these movements are suddenly a strong selling point and command a premium pricing ...... :think:

My questions: how special is this movement (aside from its historic significance) and does it outperform e.g. ETA's 2824-2 ??

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a vintage NOS movement in this LE |> but at the proposed pricing I will have to reconsider (and maybe drop out :-|)

RonB

JohnF

· #54 · Apr 24, 2011

Hi -

While I do not speak for Laco, I think I can provide some insight into pricing.

First and foremost, any pricing is their business. We can complain, but thinking that we can do a bulk purchase and find a watchmaker to do the dials and hands differently: get real. The devil is in the details, and my experience points towards spending some serious bucks to do any sort of dial design and/or hands design. Even an independent master watchmaker is not a designer and finding the people who combine both is neither cheap, simple or easy. I really, really don't think it can simply be done that way: if it was that easy, others would be doing it. Further, no one here is going to be able to manage such a project, and unless you really know what you are doing in such a project, you will end up with a suboptimal solution.

I really don't see how this can be done without Lacher being seriously involved. It will cost money: what things cost in the past is not really a good measure of what they cost now, as the industry (and Lacher!) have gone through significant changes since then. If anything, I think Lacher didn't earn money on the B watch at all, when all was over and done with.

Now, that said: one of the costs will be the CLA of the movements. My watchmaker here in Germany needs about three hours to do a proper CLA and have the watch back in the case and hands attached: hence we are looking at something like 150 hours of labor just to do a basic CLA and get the watch together, without any materials costs. The movements may or may not be "free": they go for around €20 as NOS without CLA on eBay when they do appear. The cases have a price, the dials will be done new, also the hands. It all adds up. Lacher is a business as well, and needs to make money on this.

JohnF

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redwatch

· #55 · Apr 25, 2011

MHe225 said:
I have to say, this is brilliant marketing ...... Laco has found a box with 50 NOS movements in the basement and has no models to put them in. So these are, essentially, a write-off. That story changes completely with the idea of this WUS-special and these movements are suddenly a strong selling point and command a premium pricing ...... :think:

My questions: how special is this movement (aside from its historic significance) and does it outperform e.g. ETA's 2824-2 ??

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a vintage NOS movement in this LE |> but at the proposed pricing I will have to reconsider (and maybe drop out :-|)

RonB

I think it will be helpful if we know the year(s) those NOS movement were made. Had they been made during WWII period, yes, they definitely can demand a high premium. However, if they were made in the 1970s and can be found in many cheap watches during that period, then obviously they should not charge such high price.

Keep in mind that you can get true Laco/Stowa etc made/used in WWII for around 4000 euro.

JohnF

· #56 · Apr 25, 2011

The movements are from the 1970s, you wouldn't find automatic movements with central seconds earlier that were in any way affordable. It's a standard movement, but in no way a cheap one: the effects of inflation make prices back then look cheap, but they weren't...

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lukeaar

· #57 · Apr 26, 2011

Discussion has really slowed down, and I think it's because we all know what we want to vote for. When will the poll be up?

Also, any news on the price? Is it firm?

Myron

· #58 · Apr 27, 2011

lukeaar said:
Discussion has really slowed down, and I think it's because we all know what we want to vote for. When will the poll be up?

Agreed. I'm ready to vote, too, Uwe. Thanks for your fine (and frustrating, too, I'm sure) management of this project.

Kind Regards to All,

Myron

MHe225

· #59 · Apr 27, 2011 (Edited)

lukeaar said:
... we all know what we want to vote for. When will the poll be up?

Do we?

Maybe we need to vote on the choice of movement too. I appreciate that it may take ca 3 hours for a full CLA of the movement in addition to the $20 or so value of these movements. That puts it in the same price range (I think) of a nicely decorated ETA 2824-2, a Valjoux 7750, ...... :think:
Rereading some of the comments above, after all is said and done, what is so special about this movement? It's good for bragging rights (40 y.o movement in my watch), but other than that .....

Again, don't get me wrong - I'm playing devil's advocate here. Interested to hear other & more opinions and views.

RonB

JohnF

· #60 · Apr 27, 2011

A 2824-2 or a 775x goes for considerably more and even then you are not talking about a TOP movement. Besides, Laconic is making that call...

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