I wouldn't call designing a dial and hands from scratch "minor detailing"! There is plenty of room to make this a very unique watch.The problem is that this is a 50 unit run and and the project leader stated that we have to make do with the existing cases.
Nothing fancy, maybe some detailing here and there. As much as we like to let our creative juices fly... we just can't.
Actually, we also have to design the hands because none of the existing hands from the Laco collection will fit the Durowe movement. I think both of you might be underestimating the possibilities of custom engraving of the case and case back.Basically, it is only the dial we will design.
Thank God for that, as it would take forever designing every part of the watch.
I'm waiting on photos and a few more specs of the movement from Laco. But, you're absolutly right that the location of the second hand can have a very important bearing on the choice of theme.The movement, is it a center second, or does it have a seconds sub dial?
I will find out.The case, bezel and caseback, can they be had polished?
I fully agree. However, I've always been excited by the earlier B-Uhr variants that have rarely been reproduced. The W-SS artillery B-Uhr has always intrigued me; the original was very, very rare. It was also 65 mm in size! I have a reproduction of it by Aeromatic 1912 (cheap Chinese watch) and I know Aristo make a version too. However, neither are technically brilliant, and we certainly could do a much better version here - especially with a Laco 45 mm case.I feel that the B-uhr theme has been overdone, be it A-dial or B-dial. The only B-uhr dial I would contemplate, is the W-SS special.
Submarine units had a different dial too.
Absolutely! And well said.the best we can do is dig up an old dial design and try to stay as close to the original as possible. And to move away frm the Laco history and heritage would be an insult to the brand... this is purely my humble opinion. We must remember Laco's roots and not stray too far.
Fantastic to see you here Tony!Thanks for the Opportunity Uwe. |> i'm in for something SPECIAL. so long the Case Diameter is 46 or 47mm. ;-)
Tony - read the OVERVIEW thread at the top of this forum. The movement has already been decided and the case, as I stated in my previous post, has to be a current Laco case.i like that Dial very Much. :-! it's Different and we don't see it too often... the Secs i'd like to see:
Hand Wind Decorated Movement. (maybe a Valgrange A07.111).
see through back
46 or 47mm Case Diameter. PLEASE.!!
Brushed or Bead Blasted Case.
We should come up with a theme first as it might dictate the case size. For example, a larger case for a B-Uhr would be more appropriate, just like a smaller case for a Navy would be more suiting.Since the question of the case size seems to crop up most of the time.
What say we start on the voting on the case size?
The photos from his works are not only all over the internet, but this forum as well. I would certainly like to get his permission IF we end up replicating a historical watch and using one of his photos as a reference.BTW, I forgot one thing: Not sure if I am not breaching the copyright of Knirim me copying his pictures?
You're being awfully generous with everyone's money Janne! ;-) Let's stick with 50 watches and keep the costs down. I could understand the gesture if it was a watch of his design that we were using; it seems a little extreme for a photo of someone else's watch though.Maybe we could have 51 watches made. No 51/51 given for free to Mr Knirim as a Thank You, and we all split the cost?
Exactly! These projects are like herding cats with everyone running off in different directions with long lists of ideas. The purpose of this thread is to establish a theme for the watch - nothing more (other than possibly a name for the project). Let's try to focus on that. As Rev Fred said - there will be plenty of opportunity to discuss all the different design elements later on. We're not trying to design an entire watch in one thread, just to give this project a direction to move in.WOAH! Cool it! This is a thread about the general theme of the watch. There are steps involved in these projects, the first being to choose a general theme, and from there you choose the appropriate dial, hands, name, engraving etc. You will get the chance to debate the dial ad nauseam in the coming weeks, as well as all the other aspects, in separate threads.
Nothing wrong with what you said! I believe Rev Fred just didn't want everyone to get the wrong idea that this was the time to discuss dial designs. However, you are absolutely correct, now is the time to discuss the theme if you have an opinion on it - and yes - pictures will really help to support your point.hanz079 said:Erm... did I come out sounding rough? Sorry if I did... What I meant was if there is any suggestions, now is the best time to be heard. Any pictures or references would be ideal.
Good point and I agree.While Laco is most associated with historical Pilot watches, the typical B-hur hommages have been widely done. I think doing something different would be better for such a limited run. I do like the dial below, finding it keeps it in the genre, but different than an A or B dial.
Actually it would be a 36 mm, not 38 mm, but the point is still a good one. We will discuss the case later in another thread, but the movement size should be a consideration for the theme too.The movement is also small (26mm), so I think a smaller case would be more in keeping with the design. From an earlier post, it sounds like the two smallest case sizes would be 38mm and 42mm.
Laco also produced a wonderful naval version of the B-Uhr - in 1943 I believe. A faithful reproduction of this model is available in the Laco Shop as a very special edition of 20 samples (if I had the funds I would buy one tomorrow). As much as I would really love to do a proper KM wristwatch version of this B-Uhr, it would require a sub-second dial. I'm waiting on confirmation from Laco, but I believe the Durowe being used for this project has a central second hand. This alone makes doing any type of marine/navy/KM project difficult as the vast majority of those timepieces used sub-second dials. I have however found this intriguing design of a Lange KM B-Uhr that could be used for consideration.Laco started -25, did only civilian watches untill the B-uhren (1939?). They were the only milpil designs they did untill that fateful night in -45.
The implication was any existing case, however, I have asked for a clarification on this in the form of either a list or photos. I will post all information as I receive it.We need to use an existing case (Uwe, can you get perhaps a serious of photographs that would give us the case options?)
I'm of the opposite opinion on this subject. Of course we can get into that during the dial planning, but a lume dial would be historically correct.But please: NO full dial lume: at night this is far too garish and distracting.
I actually quite like the idea of a theme specific to either a person, ship, plane or event. Laco did have two series of Squadron specific B-Uhrs that featured the crests of various squadrons along with their designation engraved on the case. I think they were fairly popular, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to explore something like that.Perhaps a compromise could be a pilot of sorts, which has a unique theme, and some special design elements to echo that theme.
This isn't the place for politics, however, I think that comment about Hanna Reitsch was grossly unfair. I'm not sure what you're basing your comment on, but having just finished her autobiography I would completely disagree with it.I think someone like Galland falls on the right side of the line, while, say, someone like Hannah Reisch would not given her political sympathies.
Absolutely, I'm a fan of the idea, but I'm also curious as to your reasoning that the timepieces that were predominantly made by companies like Hanhart, Junghans and Minerva has a Laco connection. I'm unaware that Laco produced any stopwatches during that time period (or any other for that matter).I'd like to see a watch that takes the general thrust of Laco's watches and moves it in a different direction and the best area for this IMHO are the Marine stopwatches. These were used to time torpedoes, etc. Wouldn't this be a great starting point for a watch with real Laco DNA, but a totally different look?
Brilliant. Only we're now into things that predates Laco's history. However, as I said previously, I do like the idea of a commemorating a special ship (or plane, or person, etc...).My suggestion: a civilian naval design with a theme harking back to the glory days of German steam (Prue-WWI). Perhaps a watch commemorating the steam ship Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse.
I'm certainly not opposed to the idea - in fact, I own a Steinhart Marine Timer, which was modeled after a torpedo timer. However, I don't think this idea will work for this project. Along those lines I would rather use a deck watch, ship's chronometer or Laco's own navy watches as a guide. Unfortunately those designs mostly use sub-second dials, which the Durowe movement doesn't have.Dear Uwe: This is for you. I'd love to hear your comments on this idea of Janne's, which I and at least one other poster here think is excellent. Let us know!
I should be receiving actual photos of the movement any day now. I'm fairly certain though that they're not decorated as they are NOS items. I appreciate your desire to have something nice under the glass, but I think the effort of decorating the movement after the fact would put the cost of this project well out of reach of the majority of participants. We will be designing the hands, so certainly bluing will be an option we could explore.Uwe, please kindly advise if the movement will be decorated or just plain.... a bit wasted not to go to the fullest, like the WUS B project not to have Blued hands. Just my opinion.
As I mentioned above, I'll go through everything suggested in this thread that drew interest and include it in a poll for voting. I have wanted to put together a commemorative U-boat watch for years, but wanted to really do it right by reproducing an actual issue watch. The lack of a sub-second complication is a deal breaker for me though. Still, there are many other possibilities.I am in agreement with Uwe about the theme centering on an historical person or a particular ship or plane. German history is repleat with suitable examples, and we have had several mentioned already. Perhaps if agreement could be reached that we like the idea of this kind of historical commemoration theme, a poll could be set up to vote on the suggestions made so far.If we are going to go down the route of a torpedo timer, how about celebrating a particular U-Boat. How about U156, the boat which sank the Laconia and then rescued a load of the survivors. A uniquly humanitarian exploit by its captain Hartenstein, which deserves to be celebrated.
Janne's mirror explanation is one reason. However, I've more frequently read that reversing numbers was for photographic purposes so that the time could be read regardless of the orientation of the negative.Also - can someone please explain to me the purpose of the mirrored minute numerals in the SS watch dial.
Not all were treated "normally". And certainly not those on the Eastern Front. You're fighting a lost cause here Janne and although the history tomes currently being written would support your claims, we need to keep this discussion centered on the special project watch. WUS is not a political forum gentlemen, so please, no more discussion regarding the SS! :rodekaartif a W-SS soldier was taken as a POW, they were treated as normal soldiers. I am just trying to explain some facts, that more or less are forgotten, and explain why I have nothing against the W-SS insignia.
Actually, if you read through this thread there is a lot of interest so far in a navy B-Uhr. I like the idea of mating the Durowe movement with something austere yet elegant - qualities that often describe marine watches.I think I may be going against the grain here, but I cast my vote for a military design of navy influence. The flieger thing has been done to death. I own a bunch (and have a couple more on my "list"), but interesting naval observation watches are fewer and further between. Just my 2 cents.