[Rev Fred]

Hello Uwe, saw your thread in Public, and being a masochist . . .

I am not that familiar with the Laco brand, and regard it as basically quite utilitarian. Having taken a look at the current line up, it is mostly very traditional, with many varieties of the perenial pilot's watch, and several fairly straight forward Navy watches. The only ones which are really of any interest from a design point of view are the more modern Navy watches like the Navy 44 Black. One might be able to spot that such a watch was a Laco from a distance. With the pilots you can forget it, they just look like every other pilot you can get.

A limited edition can and should be much more than a slight variation on a current model. If you work on it enough and get sufficient input you can arrive at something very distinctive and appealing. It should be something which Laco would likely never introduce as a variation in the future, because if so there would be little point in putting in the effort.

So, identify what Laco already does well, and move away from that. Well, more precisely "grow" away from it in an irregular direction. This way the project generates its own unique flavour.

The movement and case restrictions limit the project quite a bit from a features point of view. No GMT, chorno, bezels, alarms, day dates etc etc. Therefore, the juiciest part will be the theme and the face design.

We are talking in this thread about the theme. So, what themes does Laco already use? Obviously it is entirely military, with Pilot, Navy and Squad sub-brands. I suggest the SE moves away from the military theme, but maintains some kind of root connection to the core brand. The obvious and rather cliched horological themes peripheral to the military areas are the professional ones like diver, commercial pilot, explorer and so on. I would rather avoid these because they are so derrivative and have been done to death.

How about moving in a slightly different direction towards celebrating some pioneering engineering achivement, which might in itself not be directly linked to military themes, but can trace some kind of connection. For example, a watch based on early ballooing, early air-ships, internal combustion engines, steam engines, racing cars, racing planes etc etc.

Air ships intreague me, and would have a German connection. Although, one can buy Zeppelin watches already I believe, so the SE would have to steer clear of that. Germany can also claim to have invented the internal combustion engine and the first car.

German produced the first functional helicopter, the FW 61. Focke-Wulf Fw 61 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia How about a watch design inspired by that?

 

[Rev Fred]

Re: 2011 Laco Special Edition Project - GENERAL DISCUSSION

I think the case should definetely be 45mm with the large onion crown. I'd prefer type b dial over type a. Basically, a smaller version of Ref: 861707 which is the most historically accurate flieger available today.

Common' fella! This is an opportunity to design and create a totally unique piece, to get involved in the production of something truely original and ground breaking.

A tiny variation on what is a totally bland existing watch is surely not the way to go. You guys have a wonderful opportunity here to have something really cool made up. Dont' squander it on simply having your personal choice of existing Laco produced in a tiny run.

Don't get me wrong, Laco's pilot watches are very cool, very hisotrically accurate and obviously very satisfying to some. But they are just black and white pilot wathes which look identical to all the millions of other pilot watches out there, give or take a few minuscule details.

As far as the theme of a WUS Laco SE goes, simply making ANOTHER pilot watch would be seriously lame.

Come on Gens! What interests you? What themes excite you? What colours do you like? What historical events / figures inspire you? What watch face designs have you always liked - "12, 3, 6, 9" "1, 2 / 4, 5 /7, 8 / 10, 11" "V - I -"? What watch hands would you like to see in your perfect watch?

There is so much you can play around with here and have fun with.

 

[Rev Fred]

Re: 2011 Laco Special Edition Project - GENERAL DISCUSSION

Just look at this thing

This was designed from a blank piece of paper as a WUS Steinhart SE. This watch looks completely unique and has sold out immediately. Everyone loves it, because it is new and fresh.

Does this not inspire you Gens?

 

[Rev Fred]

You are right, Aristo does have a model with the sextant dial.
But I guess it's still more unique than your run of the mill A-dial B-dial...
Since the project is still in it's early phase...
Anyone with suggestions on the dial design better voice out now.

WOAH! Cool it! This is a thread about the general theme of the watch. There are steps involved in these projects, the first being to choose a general theme, and from there you choose the appropriate dial, hands, name, engraving etc. You will get the chance to debate the dial ad nauseam in the coming weeks, as well as all the other aspects, in separate threads.

For what it is worth I would be totally against anything carrying the SS logo, or in fact any design which has any association with the SS whatsoever. Wehrmacht, Luftwaffer, U-Boats maybe, but the SS should be out on taste grounds straight away. I can't believe anyone would go against that. It would be like having a swastika on there for heaven's sake!

With regards to the point about copying the dial design of a watch in someone's collection, there are no copyright issues at all. Ownership of a book does not give you any rights to the IP vesting in it, these belong to the author. With a watch, any rights would have belonged to the original creator, no doubt now long dead.

I can't believe you guys are SO unambitious with this opportunity. The general consensus seems to be "Oh! Its just TOO hard to design anything different, lets just put an existing dial in an existing watch and be done with it! Oh, my sore head, all that creativity was SUCH hard work!"

THEME people. What will the THEME be? Stay on TARGET!

 

[Rev Fred]

I quite like the dial on this one. I like the large figures, which are historical, but also actually quite modern what with bigness being the order of the day.

But there I go discussing the dial!

For my part, not being an enthusiast of the pure pilot watches, I would like to see something a little different. I appreciate that I may be swimming against the tide here, but I think once the project has moved forward a bit and people appreciate the design freedoms we have, I hope most will have the courage to at least dip their toe in the ocean, if not lose sight of the shore.

Perhaps a compromise could be a pilot of sorts, which has a unique theme, and some special design elements to echo that theme.

Here's something, how about a Pilot themed around the German fighter ace Adolf Galland. The most successful fighter pilot of WW11 and a gentleman to boot. Popular on both sides after his outrage at the killing of RAF prisoners of war. Became friendly with British fighter pilots after the war. Quite a rebel with the higher powers of the time, marking him out as someone with a bit of sense.

Read about him here: Adolf Galland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, any takers for the Laco Galland Special Edition Pilot? Galland had his ME109 painted with a yellow nose during the Battles of Britain and France, so there is some colour there we could use. An engraving of a 109 or a ME 262 which he also flew could go on the back.

Get the idea folks? Lets have some more suggestions.

 

[Rev Fred]

Oh, and to be clear, I believe there IS a distinction between certain German World War II references and others. Anything associated with National Socialism, the SS and so on should be dismissed out of hand. However, I think it is acceptable to refer to military themes like U-boats, tanks, planes, things like that. I think someone like Galland falls on the right side of the line, while, say, someone like Hannah Reisch would not given her political sympathies. Mein Kampf no, Das Boot yes. I may be quite wrong here, it would be interesting to hear what other people think.

If you look at the Laco website there are background images of Spitfires on there, so the brand deliberately associates itself with WWII.

 

[Rev Fred]

I am in agreement with Uwe about the theme centering on an historical person or a particular ship or plane. German history is repleat with suitable examples, and we have had several mentioned already. Perhaps if agreement could be reached that we like the idea of this kind of historical commemoration theme, a poll could be set up to vote on the suggestions made so far.

Re Hannah Reisch, I did not mean to criticise her in my earlier post, and I too am a great admirer of her aeronautical exploits. However, she was very close to ......, and after the war expressed considerable regret at having not been able to commit suicide alongside him in the Bunker, which she was ordered to leave at the last minute. She also made some dubious comments about German shame over the National Socialist period being because German lost the war, not because of the holocaust. Anyhow, this is not the place to discuss this topic!

Suffice to say that I still think Galland is a somewhat different proposition, but I admit that perhaps WW2 figures with political connections should be left out of this project for fear of offending anyone.

If we are going to go down the route of a torpedo timer, how about celebrating a particular U-Boat. How about U156, the boat which sank the Laconia and then rescued a load of the survivors. A uniquly humanitarian exploit by its captain Hartenstein, which deserves to be celebrated.

The Laco U-156, or the Laco Hartenstein SE would be good.

Re the torpedo timer dial, I am not sure about the colours, I don't like them. They remind me too much of the Christopher Ward RAF Sector watches.

Also - can someone please explain to me the purpose of the mirrored minute numerals in the SS watch dial.

 

[Rev Fred]

Uwe, can you please step in and definitively BLOCK the use of the SS dial, with or without the SS on it.

Janne, you are missing the point. It is NOT about putting the emblem on there, which I think we all agree we would not do, it is a wider point about deliberately celebrating something with an explicit SS background.

Legally we all appreciate we cannot use the insignia. However, it is not a legal question, it is a general moral question, and a question of people feeling uncomfortable. We don't want to upset anyone, regardless of the rights and wrongs of their being upset.

You are in Frankfurt airport. Another traveller spots your nice new Laco, and asks what it is. You tell him. He asks about the face design he likes. You tell him it is identical to a Waffen SS watch, that you and your mates really liked. He walks off in disgust, and rightly so.

I do not want a Laco SE with an SS connection and history. It would clearly have one it we used that dial.