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2011 Laco Special Edition Project - PROJECT THEME

72768 Views 279 Replies 43 Participants Last post by  StufflerMike, 
Uwe W.
This thread is ONLY for the discussion and voting of the Special Project's theme and the name of the watch (if it is decided that a name will be used).
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M
Re: 2011 Laco Special Edition Project - GENERAL DISCUSSION

Dear Friends, I'd like to see a watch that takes the general thrust of Laco's watches and moves it in a different direction and the best area for this IMHO are the Marine stopwatches. Now, I realize we are talking about a standard, sweeping second hand watch, but I'd love to explore the single-handed, Marine stopwatches as a starting point for a more standard three-handed watch ... or a regulator if that is doable with the movement in question. (I have no idea.) If it is within the rules, I am pasting in the link to the image of the Submarine Hunters watch at Herr Knirim's page: http://www.knirim.de/a0501vor.jpg These were used to time torpedoes, etc. Wouldn't this be a great starting point for a watch with real Laco DNA, but a totally different look?
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I suggested this on my own, but I see that Janne also suggested it. It is a great idea. I'd love to see you play with the Naval stopwatch.

Janne said:
I interpret the wish for a "Pilots" watch as a wish for a dial with aMilitary connection. The guys wishing a Pilots dial (in fact the B-uhr dial) have already a huge selection to choose from.

As I wrote on a earlier post, we have dial designs stretching all the way to the late 1800.

I saw an interesting dial (again, source Knirim) belonging to a WW2 Submarine stopwatch.

Yes, it would be very challenging converting this dial to a 3 hand configuration.


Several pre-WW2 design are only suitable with the Laco Marine case
Some would look good with the B-uhr case.

Re W-SS: always a possibility to use a similar looking text. W-Laco ? W-ZZ etc Or even W-SS where the S is writen as a normal S and not the flash bolt, sharp curvature S.

Do not forget that SS used the skull etc. The W-SS is a more unusual one.
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M
Not sure about Runes, but I think Janne's overall concept for this watch is very smart and represents a true evolution of the core Laco brand into a new area.
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Dear Uwe: This is for you. I'd love to hear your comments on this idea of Janne's, which I and at least one other poster here think is excellent. Let us know!

Janne said:
Which one, the W-UX or the torpedo timer?

As we might enter murky waters, and hard feelings, I think the Torpedo timer might be more suitable.

Submarine Torpedo Timer (stop watch)


Ship's Artillery timer ( stop watch)
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Janne said:
Off Topic History lesson:
Yes, the vast numbers of SS soldiers were in fact ordinary (but elite) military guys, not the murderers they are remembered as today. That branch of SS was called Waffen SS (Weapon SS). In battle they were placed under the command of the normal Armed Forces leadership.

The murderes were a very, very small group. THey belonged to so called Einzats gruppen SS, which were a separate, paramilitary part of the SS organisation, under own command. They did not do any military work, or receive much military training. They were selected and indoctrinated, to be brutal, brainless murderes.

If you were a Frenchman, Swede, Czech, Estonian, Latvian, Bielorussian or any other nationalites (incl some British and US!), you could only enroll in the SS if you wanted to fight with the Germans against the Soviet Communists. More than half (60-70%) of the soldiers of W-SS were foreigners.
Only from Sweden, there were a couple of thousand volunteers.
Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe etc were only for Germans or men with proven German ancestry

I am just trying to explain some facts, that more or less are forgotten, and explain why I have nothing against the W-SS insignia.
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There are many ways of looking at History, but what you have written here is simply not correct. At the Nuremburg War Crimes trials the SS was determined to be, as a whole, a criminal organization. First of all, the Allgemeine SS was responsible for carrying out the Final Solution against the Jews and this was not confined to Einzatsgruppen, but included the administration of the Concentration Camp system, which included an estimated 15,000, yes that is correct, 15,000 camps. The staffing of this branch of the SS, the one responsible for the Holocaust was many tens of thousands of people. Not a small group. As for the Waffen SS, it is true that this was the military branch of the SS, but it too was responsible for awful war crimes. To begin with, there was a great deal of movement between the Waffen and Allgemeine SS. And then there are the atrocities performed by the Waffen SS itself with no help from others. Let me call your attention to just a few of the Waffen SS's greatest hits.

The Wormhoudt massacre of 1940, in which British POWs were rounded up into a building and murdered by hand grenades.
The Oradour-sur-Glane Massacre of 1944 in which a French village every man, woman and child was slaughtered.
The Ochota Massacre of 1944 in which an entire section of Warsaw was overrun and 10,000 civilians were murdered in a frenzy if raping and pillaging. (This one with the help of many of the non-German SS units you mention.)

I'm going to stop here, but I think it would be best not to hear any more defenses of the SS.
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Myron said:
I think I may be going against the grain here, but I cast my vote for a military design of navy influence. The flieger thing has been done to death. I own a bunch (and have a couple more on my "list"), but interesting naval observation watches are fewer and further between. Just my 2 cents.

Myron
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I agree. I think naval watches are a more fruitful area to explore.
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Re: Timer Theme

This is the one for me. I'd really like to see this watch look different from the watches we all look at every day. We've seen B-Uhrs in every shape and form. Including, white-faced ones. Something based on a Marine Timer would be new. Just my two Pfennigs. Also, many thanks to Uwe for all of his work on this and many thanks to all of you for your great ideas and interest. This is fun and I am sure the resulting watch will be great no matter what we decide.

Uwe W. said:
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DESIGN IS FINE, INSIGNIA IS OUT
TWO TOP DESIGNS ARE THE W-SS DIAL AND MARINE TORPEDO STOP WATCH
Hey everybody. Fascinating discussion and one that I think has been quite valuable both in terms of dealing with the watch designs we want and in terms of hashing out something that is quite interesting from a moral and aesthetic point of view. My thanks to everyone involved. I am particularly moved by the prominent German members of this group -- people who are far too young to have had anything to do with the ...... years -- and who have taken a stand against the use of National Socialist insignia. At the same time, I am impressed by Janne and his insistence, even though it will not make him look good in the eyes of some, that we all acknowledge the reality of the situation and that is that we are admirers of design used in to help the NS cause. I think that in the end, we seem to have come to a conclusion: Insignia directly relating to the SS or any other NS group are out; designs conceived during that time are just fine. I agree with this and think, if I may be so bold, that this conclusion might be a fine place to end the discussion.
Meanwhile, we have also, it seems to me narrowed down the designs we are in favor of. I think the W-SS dial (can we think of a better way to define that) and the Marine Stopwatch are the two that have the most support. What do you all think? Have I missed something?
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Re: Marine Theme

Janne said:
The fact that the W-SS watch has been already redone by aristo removes the uniqueness we want to achieve with this Special Project, IMO.
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+1
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Re: Torpedo Theme

There are three ways I can think of that you could easily use this design as the basis for a watch. Others will no doubt have better ideas, but here are mine to start the conversation. I fully recognize from the start that any design based on this dial will be a loose interpretation. Since this is a stopwatch and we are converting it to a different use. But I love the creativity and originality of this.
1) (This is my favorite) A single handed watch design with an outer blue ring representing the 24-hour day and perhaps the sub dial for power reserve.
2) A standard three handed dial watch functioning much the same way a B-Uhr B dial does with the hours on the inner red dial and the minutes on the outer blue. And if possible the sub dial retained for power reserve.
3) A three handed watch with a stopwatch function, not sure if the Durowe movement has this capability.
None of these designs will be exactly related to their stopwatch parent, but all would be inspired thereby.

city-dweller said:
H
Personally I cannot see how this beautiful device
can be transformed into a sensible writst watch...

View attachment 424903
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Re: Torpedo Theme

Janne said:
One way of adopting the dial would be to assign one function to each scale ( one for the hour hand, one for minute and one for seconds)
Change the writing on the scales. Maybe just pips for the seconds.
Then change the text on the non functional scale to (maybe) WUS Laco Special Project 2011 or whatever.
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Re: Voting

First off, Uwe, I know that all of us here appreciate your hard work and dedication to this project. So, thank you. Just to add to your burden, I was wondering if you might be able to post these themes with pictures. I've been following each and every post here with interest and yet confess that I don't have an idea what some of these would look like and I've gone back over the thread.

Uwe W. said:
Theme ideas that were most discussed:

  • Airforce - Design based on Sun and Wrist Compasses used alongside the original B-Uhr
  • B-Uhr - Variation of the current Laco B-Uhr dial (change in colour, design, etc...)
  • B-Uhr - Design based on older B-Uhr designs that pre-dated the current Laco designs
  • B-Uhr - Design based on the W-SS Artillery (aka sextant) dial
  • Civilian - Non-military watch that draws inspiration from one of Laco's classic dial designs
  • Historical - Commemorative design based on either a ship, plane, unit or person from history
  • Navy - Timer designs that include stopwatches and other measurement instruments
  • Navy B-Uhr - An interpretative design that puts a Navy spin on the existing Laco B-Uhr design
  • Navy B-Uhr - Design based on vintage Laco and Lange & Söhne naval B-Uhrs
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Re: Voting

I guess it's fine. It's just that some of the categories are a bit vague. The Civilian category could literally be anything as could the commemorative. I would also add a category, the 24-hour design that was suggested.

Airforce - Design based on Sun and Wrist Compasses used alongside the original B-Uhr
B-Uhr - Variation of the current Laco B-Uhr dial (change in colour, design, etc...)
B-Uhr - Design based on older B-Uhr designs that pre-dated the current Laco designs
B-Uhr - Design based on the W-SS Artillery (aka sextant) dial
Civilian - Non-military watch that draws inspiration from one of Laco's classic dial designs
Historical - Commemorative design based on either a ship, plane, unit or person from history
Navy - Timer designs that include stopwatches and other measurement instruments
Navy B-Uhr - An interpretative design that puts a Navy spin on the existing Laco B-Uhr design
Navy B-Uhr - Design based on vintage Laco and Lange & Söhne naval B-Uhrs
Uwe W. said:
Well, I had intended to have example photos of each for the official voting thread, but don't have anything prepared at the moment. Which aren't you sure of? Maybe my explanation of each theme should be improved upon?
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Re: Voting

Uwe W. said:
Keep in mind, the THEME vote is only really intended to push the project down a specific path. If for example a Commemorative theme was picked, then we could narrow down the options and start coming up with a specific dial design.
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You are correct, of course. Can't wait to get voting.
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JohnF said:
Nice!

I took the liberty of removing the subsecond dial. The red 60 should be complete, of course, and the red would be classic...

JohnF
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Love the red. Love this design. Really nice. Sterile dial is my preference.
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Re: Torpedo Theme

YES. This is great. Wish I were smart enough to include the photo, but I am bowled over by your design, Manera.
Manera said:
Sorry for the delay, work was unexpectedly demanding this past weekend. A quick rundown: four scales (external seconds, a 'blank' scale, middle minutes, and interior hours) and a dash of colour! It was suggested in an earlier post to use one of the middle scales for historical text or text specific to this project but my vanilla-CAD wouldn't allow for text along curves... so I opted to leave the middle scale blank.

Now seeing this layout, I think it affords many opportunities for design nuance... but I'll wait to see the vote results before taking it any further. Thanks, Manera.
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