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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So let's finish what we started :). Met up with Thomas yesterday and there are a couple of new developments I would like to share with you. First, we now have a choice of movement and we can use the 818.860 watch case or the original case shown below.

Movements we can choose from:

1) ST8000 - US$780
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2) ST8001 - US$1120 (with power reserve and date)
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3) ST8006 - US$880 (hour hand at 12 o'clock)
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The other watch case, 818.860, we can choose is shown here (please note this movement is different from those shown above and is not available):
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A couple of things you all need to be aware of:

1) Movement photos only indicate placement of complications and the final product may differ
2) The 818.860 watch case is 12mm thick and the original watch case is 10mm
3) In order for this project to go ahead we need to order 30 pieces for the ST8000 and old case, or 50 for any other combination.

I will post a couple of vote threads shortly to determine which movement and watch case this project will be using.

Thanks for looking!
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

Of the three movements, I am only interested in the originally proposed ST8000. Of the two cases, I prefer the more modern one to the one originally proposed, and it seems to fit better with most of the design proposals we've seen so far.
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

I vote for the ST8000 in this group. I think the simle design would be much more appealing.
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

Oh and hked has there been any consideration for the point others and I have made about having some "set" designs to look at before the votes?

I think it's especially important now that we have more variables such as movement choice to deal with. If people vote without seeing the possible designs for the st8006 or st8001 there could be problems later on with people pulling out.

For example I like some of OM's designs on the st8000 but don't know if he could do something similar for the 8006. Maybe if after seeing some of the ideas for the 8006 I might have decided to vote for the 8000 instead.

All the more important if people are asked to spend 1000+ on a watch. I just want to make sure you'll get enough people happy with a final design to get a custom order through. A lot of us are hedging depending on final design, if it doesn't fit our tastes I doubt we'll shell out 1000 or 780 for a watch.

So having the movement vote so soon might not be the best idea? We haven't seen any mock ups of what a WUS ST8001 or ST8006 tourby will look like (could be horrible or could be great).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

Actually that is what we plan to do, but I see your point about the difference in movement designs. We thought it might be best to have the case and movement settled before creating 3-4 set designs for everyone to choose from.

Ummmmmm, would anyone else like to chime in?

Oh and hked has there been any consideration for the point others and I have made about having some "set" designs to look at before the votes?

I think it's especially important now that we have more variables such as movement choice to deal with. If people vote without seeing the possible designs for the st8006 or st8001 there could be problems later on with people pulling out.

For example I like some of OM's designs on the st8000 but don't know if he could do something similar for the 8006. Maybe if after seeing some of the ideas for the 8006 I might have decided to vote for the 8000 instead.

All the more important if people are asked to spend 1000+ on a watch. I just want to make sure you'll get enough people happy with a final design to get a custom order through. A lot of us are hedging depending on final design, if it doesn't fit our tastes I doubt we'll shell out 1000 or 780 for a watch.

So having the movement vote so soon might not be the best idea? We haven't seen any mock ups of what a WUS ST8001 or ST8006 tourby will look like (could be horrible or could be great).
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

I don't know that an early movement vote is inappropriate. The choice of a regulator vs. a conventional design is huge and significant, and the choice of paying hundreds more and getting (or being stuck with, depending on your view) power reserve and open-dial date is highly significant too.

For my part, I have no desire for a regulator watch and if I did would be looking for one which could actually be used to regulate things. My impression is that the ST8000 is like almost all tourbillons other than those of ALS (and perhaps a few other very high end makers) in that it's non-hacking, and a non-hacking regulator makes no sense to me.

I'm also of the opinions that open-dial dates are ugly and hard to read and that power reserves are pointless and that the combination of the two serves only to accentuate the busy-ness of a tourbillon dial, which by nature already verges on the border of "too busy." No offense to those who disagree. :)

Whatever the varying opinions, however, I think we should vote on these options sooner rather than later, if only because the resulting styles will be so different that a great deal of design work will end up wasted if radically different designs must be developed for all three movements.

Edit: Just after I finished typing this, I saw the movement vote thread. Oops. :)
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

Somewhere I had a document of specifications for the ST8000, but it's not on the computer I'm using now, and I cannot remember where I found it. Can anyone with good knowledge of the ST8000/ST8006 confirm or refute my assumption that it is non-hacking?
 

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I am not sure i am reading it correct but if the majority voted say 1 for watch case and 1 for movement. Won't the resultant watch just be a watch you can buy straight for seagull? What is the differentiating factor?
The differentiation will come from the dial, hands, etc.

Personally, I think that differentiation will be harder with the traditional case, but I could be wrong. In any case, Seagull sells tourbillons in either style case.
 

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So far I haven't found any of the design proposals appealing enough to seriously consider spending somewhere in the vicinity of $1000.

I'd like a very traditional German marine deck watch style, with the tourbillon in place of the traditional seconds dial. First, it would be something at least a little different from the many marine watches on the market, and to the best of my knowledge different from any tourbillon watch on the market. Second it would be versatile watch that could do double duty as both a dress and casual watch. I think it's a design compatible with either case option, and with a bit of work could be applied to either the simple but off-centre ST8000 or the ST8006 regulator movement (for an example see the Dornblueth & Sohn Regulator). The ST8001 requires a more complex dial, and I have my doubts about the potential for combining that with marine aesthetic.

And before anyone asks - I lack the skill to do a mockup.
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

Somewhere I had a document of specifications for the ST8000, but it's not on the computer I'm using now, and I cannot remember where I found it. Can anyone with good knowledge of the ST8000/ST8006 confirm or refute my assumption that it is non-hacking?
The ST8001 that I have is non-hacking. I'd surprised if the other ST800x were hacking.
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

Somewhere I had a document of specifications for the ST8000, but it's not on the computer I'm using now, and I cannot remember where I found it. Can anyone with good knowledge of the ST8000/ST8006 confirm or refute my assumption that it is non-hacking?
have the st8000. it is non hacking. in fact, if you adjust the hour hands backwards, the tourbillon actually start spinning the other way.
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

As the other tourby design thread has been locked I'm going to repost my reasons for preferring regulator over the other two choices:

Campaign for 3-2-1 movement vote (regulator, power reserve, ordinary).

My reasoning is a regulator is:

1. it has centred hands which should help design processes - the key factor that would make it worthwhile for me to pay the extra 100 dollars;

2. it does not add much to the cost (unlike the power reserve and date option...230 dollars for those 2 extra features is not so easy to stomach and going over the 1000 dollar mark is a psychological barrier for me).

3. in my opinion it honestly looks more visually appealing :) and gives us more surfaces to play around with lots of sub dials/quadrants to break up the surface with (if desired).

4. something different to my existing watches and fills an empty spot :)

Reason (not a very good one really...) number 5:
Seagull themselves price the regulator above the power reserve/date variant:
http://usseagull.com/EnProductShow.a...ssID=86&ID=126 - regulator - 6200 dollars
http://usseagull.com/EnProductShow.a...ssID=82&ID=119 - power reserve - 5300 dollars
yet we'd have to pay more for the power reserve over the regulator.

I believe the definition of a regulator watch is that it has to have separate dials for the three hands, there is no requirement that it hacks. I believe the original regulators were maritime clocks/watches that were extremely accurate? (Open to corrections).

As there are no mock ups of what a WUS regulator tourbillon would look like I've included a few photos of regulators and regulator tourbillons below:







And a link to some Minorva regulator tourbillons:
http://www............/prolist.asp?id=1281&protitle=TOURBILLON (Liaoning)
 

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Re: WUS 2012 Tourbillon Design 2

The ST8001 that I have is non-hacking. I'd surprised if the other ST800x were hacking.
have the st8000. it is non hacking. in fact, if you adjust the hour hands backwards, the tourbillon actually start spinning the other way.
Thank you both for confirmation.

That solidifies my opposition to a regulator. A non-hacking regulator will not be used to regulate anything and seems therefore no more than a difficult-to-read novelty. No insult meant to those of you who disagree. :)
 
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