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Nice to see, but typical...

1/2 the information wrong, or missing altogether. :-(
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Would actually appreciate it if you were specific about what is incorrect or missing so we can make changes for any future articles.

There isn't a whole lot out there in English on Russian watches, and, not surprisingly, much of it is contradictory to one another. We would love to have a definitive history to refer to for the future, but that seems elusive.

Seriously, if anyone wants to get us good solid info together, we will work to make sure it is correct in coming articles, of which there will be more. This was cobbled together from many sources (the International Watch one)... In fact, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of it came off sites and articles connected to the forum.

I'm not sure where WWA got their info. I would even welcome a specific, point-by-point breakdown of the articles, with correct info and an education on the specifics.

Also, I know its not ever good to publish incorrect information, but I do think it is good that the Western watch media is starting to take a greater interest in Russian watches... And a good bit of the information comes from the manufacturers, who live in this everyday.

Is it really that it is "wrong" info in here or just omitted? We can't control how much space they give us, so missing info in the narrative is pretty much inevitable.

But if something is factually incorrect (I'm not talking about opinion statements about quality or one brand versus another) but a true factual error about when something happened or the name of something, who actually made it, etc., please let us know.

If there are really important events that are missing, then pass those along as well, and we will try to get them in for the future where we can.

Might make a good thread, but any information you could send me off line is welcome...

thanks!
 

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I have a question to Strela and Michele regarding their comments...
1/2 the information wrong, or missing altogether. :-(
The second one is better.
What sort of information is incorrect? Surely lots of people have read the articles and ask the same question .....:-S.
I think it would be very good if Strela and Michel could be more concrete. Maybe we could work on the mistakes (if there are some) all together? Finally we are all interested in correct and complete information in the forum :)
There is a saying in Russian which can be translated word by word: "If you said "A", please say "B" as well".
Thanks!
 

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No problem, all in all, the knowledge of the Russian watches is still low (and i know less than other persons on this forum for sure), anyway here are some mistakes from the first article:

-As far as i know, "Paul Buhrè" was not a Swiss watchmaker. He was a Czech immigrant (Pavel Buhre) who started a pre-revolution watchmaking in Russia.
-The 3133 was not the first Swiss-originated chronograph. The article even does not mention the 3017. O|

The second article is much better, and also with very nice pics. Indipendently from the correctness, it is much more detailed and interesting. Perhaps i will post it in the Articles section. B-)
 

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Thanks a lot, Michele :)
That helps a lot already. I hope that Strela
will add much more additional information soon.
;-)
 

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No problem, all in all, the knowledge of the Russian watches is still low (and i know less than other persons on this forum for sure), anyway here are some mistakes from the first article:

-As far as i know, "Paul Buhrè" was not a Swiss watchmaker. He was a Czech immigrant (Pavel Buhre) who started a pre-revolution watchmaking in Russia.
-The 3133 was not the first Swiss-originated chronograph. The article even does not mention the 3017. O|

The second article is much better, and also with very nice pics. Indipendently from the correctness, it is much more detailed and interesting. Perhaps i will post it in the Articles section. B-)
Pavel Buhre was a swiss watchmaker indeed. While he established his shop and workshop in Peterburg in 1815 he also startet his watch factory in LeLocle, Switzerland. The firm of Buhre lastet until 1979 when it was taken over by Dixi-Mechanique. Buhre, like all the other foreign watchmakers in Russia, had to leave Russia in 1917. Their workshops were eventually integrated into what was to become the MEMZ, later Gostrest and the Second Moscow Watch Factory.

Regards
Raketa
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Good stuff! If this gets some good discussion going about the history, then should be worthwhile. Michele, you can certainly put one or both of these in the articles section if you like. We have permission to use them for informational and promotional purposes.

We have plans in the works for several articles in the North American watch press about Russian watches next year, so this thread should be a big help in sorting out any inaccuracies.

thanks!

Oh... and Irina, thanks for weighing in...
 

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:) Hi vev1138, thanks for these intresting articles, the second is more complete, i would like to know why in these two articles Strela hasn't been mentioned, i think it has been an historical watch, the first to go out in the space (i mean to do an Eva).

I like Strela very much :) .

Cheers,
Mariangela
 

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Discussion Starter #13
:) Hi vev1138, thanks for these intresting articles, the second is more complete, i would like to know why in these two articles Strela hasn't been mentioned, i think it has been an historical watch, the first to go out in the space (i mean to do an Eva).

I like Strela very much :) .

Cheers,
Mariangela

Hello... thanks for your comments!

The Srela is actually mentioned in the second article. The second paragraph on Page 192. It is admittedly brief, but it is there. In future articles we may be able to explore the Strela even further. However, the difficultly is what is happening with it now in terms of what buyers can find today.

The history is very important, but watch media are more interested in what their readers can get their hands on today. (Unless it is editorial truly about vintage watches).

The only Strela's on the market now (new ones) are from Levenburg. There has been much discussion about them on this forum. As a result, and a matter of personal interest, I asked our contacts at the manufacturers what is really happening with that name right now.

Turns out, even Poljot does not own it any more and can't use it. Another clock and watch company in Russia (I do not know the name) registered the Strela mark and now owns it. The weird thing is, they are not using it on any watches and have no plans to! (So, why register it?)

The manufacturer's said it is just another of the odd turn of events in Russian watches. However, as I understand it, this is only the name and not the case style. So, Volmax and other companies may keep coming out with their own brands with that case, like they have with Buran.

In a similar vein, Denissov seems to have registered Okean (at least in Russia) and it looks like they will own that brand as well.

As to the other, shorter article, the headline is even "A Brief Introduction to Russian Watches". We are hopeful for more coverage in WWA next year. I'm working on that even now...

Thanks!
 

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Aside from what Michele has already pointed out

The second article (which is indeed much, much better,) states in the part about the space walk that both Leonov and Believ were the first to walk in space. This information is not correct to my knowledge. It was simply Leonov who performed the space walk.

One thing that bother me is the fact that author, whom by one account here in this thread, used materials from other articles and texts accessed through this forum and other places to construct the piece, yet there is no mention of any sources or even this forum. Some parts seem like simple rewordings of other's works.

By in large, I hope that these articles draw interest to the Russian watch industry, and while they are not perfect, they are a good start getting the word the out from beyond the realm of esoteric watch forums and into the main stream of watch culture.
Deservedly so.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Fair points all... With the last being the most important about getting info about these amazing and deeply historical watches out to those who have not been exposed to them in the past.

Practically every day, someone calls or e-mails me and says something like: "I didn't even know there was such a thing as a Russian watch, but I saw this article, (or ad, or TV show) the other day and...."

Additionally, I will correct the cosmonaut information in any future copy I'm involved with.

A couple of comments though to the other points... watch articles in general are notoriously absent of sourcing footnotes or acknowledgments of any kind, at least most of the ones I've read. I'm not sure this is a special case with this article.

Also, a great deal of what is on this forum and on sites connected to it is widely dispersed on other sites throughout the internet without comment as to origin.

In fact, Igor Z., the managing director of Vostok-Europe, wrote what seems to be the most commonly circulated text of the history of the 1MWF several years back. And it has been copied, re-copied and posted around without any mention of its genesis that I can find.

(If I am incorrect about this, please post a link so I can stand corrected).

I have attached the original text if you would like to look it over. You will find the contents very familiar. The translation is a bit rough, as English is, of course, not Igor's native tongue. But the information is clear, nonetheless.

By the way, Igor is not the type who in any way would want credit for this, he just wants to do his best to have correct and interesting information about Russian watches out there for anyone who wants access to it.

That said, I will endeavor to include a reference to this forum in future articles if I am allowed to by the publisher. I recommend it to people all the time as the best place on the net to learn about Russian watches from people who really know what they are talking about.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
And, I am still open to (in fact much desirous of) any more specifics that would help in being correct in the future.

We are working on editorial content with InSync Magazine, Watchtime and others... with each installment, I hope to get more in-depth, interesting, thorough and OF COURSE, more accurate information about Russian watches and their history out there...

Like I've said before, I have no control over the space alloted, but they usually allow me to help them shape the copy because they need the education on Russian watches just like most in North America do.

I will be posting another article from Watchtime on Volmax that was published earlier in 2006 as soon as I get a web-ready PDF of it. Mine is too large to post.

Thanks!
 

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:) Hi Vev1138, i excuse myself i haven't read with attention this page 192, excuse me, you have been very kind and very explicative, i thank you very much, and hope to read others intresting articles about Russian watches, you are doing a great work :-! thanks.

Cheers,
Mariangela









Hello... thanks for your comments!

The Srela is actually mentioned in the second article. The second paragraph on Page 192. It is admittedly brief, but it is there. In future articles we may be able to explore the Strela even further. However, the difficultly is what is happening with it now in terms of what buyers can find today.

The history is very important, but watch media are more interested in what their readers can get their hands on today. (Unless it is editorial truly about vintage watches).

The only Strela's on the market now (new ones) are from Levenburg. There has been much discussion about them on this forum. As a result, and a matter of personal interest, I asked our contacts at the manufacturers what is really happening with that name right now.

Turns out, even Poljot does not own it any more and can't use it. Another clock and watch company in Russia (I do not know the name) registered the Strela mark and now owns it. The weird thing is, they are not using it on any watches and have no plans to! (So, why register it?)

The manufacturer's said it is just another of the odd turn of events in Russian watches. However, as I understand it, this is only the name and not the case style. So, Volmax and other companies may keep coming out with their own brands with that case, like they have with Buran.

In a similar vein, Denissov seems to have registered Okean (at least in Russia) and it looks like they will own that brand as well.

As to the other, shorter article, the headline is even "A Brief Introduction to Russian Watches". We are hopeful for more coverage in WWA next year. I'm working on that even now...

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Okay... as promised, here is the article from WatchTime on Volmax. Forgive me for saying it, but I want it to be known that I had nothing to do with this article. The former distributor in the US, prior to our company handing them, got this published.

So, if there are inaccuracies or issues with this one, it wasn't on my watch. :-d

But, again, even non-perfect coverage in the mainstream watch media is better than no coverage at all.

Thanks!

okay... attachment is too big, but you can view it here:

http://www.watchtime.com/archive/wt_2006_02/WT_2006_02_124.pdf

if someone can reduce it and post it, please do... I don't have the software to compress a PDF for the web...
 
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