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Yes, you're absolutely right! Thanks to all who have helped me so far trying to solve and explain the "strange behaviour" of my 2414. I haven't come to a conclusion so far, lacking time (and courage) to completely disassemble (and re-assemble) the movement. So please be patient, it is still on my to-do-list for the coming weeks.

In the meantime, a different (and not so technical) question has aroused: Does anybody know of a higher caseback allowing to install an automatic movement in an old Amphibia or Komandirskie case (the smaller caseback diameter with only one pin)?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

Thorsten
I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I just wanted to show you this curiosity that I came across and purchased a few months ago.

The case was a curious asymmetrical Komandirskie style brass case but within was a 2416b automatic movement. On closer inspection on its arrival I noticed that the automatic rotor was actually smaller than a normal rotor, but on inspection of the manufacturing it looks like it was done at the factory as the parts were unique (not simply shaved down). The case back has the same dimensions as a regular Komandirskie single lug case back, but it has the height of a regular Amphibia case back, I'm not sure if this is a factory manufactured part.

It's a very curious collection of parts. Perhaps the factory meddled in some prototypes, perhaps for an automatic Komandirskie. The case back is engraved with the year 1980 which makes it even more curiouser. So many thoughts, lol.

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I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I just wanted to show you this curiosity that I came across and purchased a few months ago.

The case was a curious asymmetrical Komandirskie style brass case but within was a 2416b automatic movement. On closer inspection on its arrival I noticed that the automatic rotor was actually smaller than a normal rotor, but on inspection of the manufacturing it looks like it was done at the factory as the parts were unique (not simply shaved down). The case back has the same dimensions as a regular Komandirskie single lug case back, but it has the height of a regular Amphibia case back, I'm not sure if this is a factory manufactured part.

It's a very curious collection of parts. Perhaps the factory meddled in some prototypes, perhaps for an automatic Komandirskie. The case back is engraved with the year 1980 which makes it even more curiouser. So many thoughts, lol.
That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing this unique piece! This is exactly the kind of caseback I had in mind (but wasn't sure it really existed). If there was only a chance to buy this...
 

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That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing this unique piece! This is exactly the kind of caseback I had in mind (but wasn't sure it really existed). If there was only a chance to buy this...
Sorry but not selling, I might be doing something in the future :)
 

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Yes, you're absolutely right! Thanks to all who have helped me so far trying to solve and explain the "strange behaviour" of my 2414. I haven't come to a conclusion so far, lacking time (and courage) to completely disassemble (and re-assemble) the movement. So please be patient, it is still on my to-do-list for the coming weeks.

In the meantime, a different (and not so technical) question has aroused: Does anybody know of a higher caseback allowing to install an automatic movement in an old Amphibia or Komandirskie case (the smaller caseback diameter with only one pin)?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

Thorsten
There are some good youtube vids, Mark Lovick has recently done a 24xx and a chap called Ratfaced_Git has some extremely detailed close up vids working on Russian movements and his 2209 vid saved my sanity where I had put it all together and had mislaid the tiny canon pinion but found another 2209 that I could harvest one from.

Just today I have been without success tried to demagnetise the 2414A hairspring in my KGB dialled piece, it just wasn't having it and I have now taken the balance assy out and peering at it via my microscope, it is very magnetised and I don't think it will run again so going to go through my scrap movements for a good balance.

I like to liken the Vostok's to the majestic Ford Cortina or Ford Escort, or even the Lada Riva for bog standard reliability and the absolute ease to work on these watches. You like the old boy racers or Garage 54 does now, bling them up, tune them up and they can take the abuse from a knowlessman like myself and still work o_O

On ebay there are several sellers of scrap 2209, 2409 and 2414As in bulk, I would recommend grabbing a handful of these movements and take some down to components then put one back together again, if it doesn't work strip it down and try again noting any mistakes made previously, it is a very soothing and enjoyable experience and again if it doesn't work then you should be beginning to see where its not working and having a few of these scrappers means you have the parts to build at least one good solid movement and you can say to people "hey I built this" :)
 

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....Just today I have been without success tried to demagnetise the 2414A hairspring.....

Are you sure it is absolutely clean?

A very, very thin film of oil is enough to cause the coils to bind together.

To Demagnetise a Hairspring:

Some experts recommend removing the entire Balance and Balance Cock assembly with hairspring attached.

Gently wrap the assembly in a soft lint free cloth. Pass it through the demagnetiser several times. The cloth prevents the hairspring vibrating when the alternating magnetic field strikes it.

I have done this many times with success.
Remember to also demagnetise the tweezers, unless they are brass.
 

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.....On ebay there are several sellers of scrap 2209, 2409 and 2414As in bulk, I would recommend grabbing a handful of these movements and take some down to components then put one back together again, if it doesn't work strip it down and try again noting any mistakes made previously, it is a very soothing and enjoyable experience and again if it doesn't work then you should be beginning to see where its not working and having a few of these scrappers means you have the parts to build at least one good solid movement and you can say to people "hey I built this" :)

Thank you for this message.!!

These movements are inexpensive and plentiful. I urge everyone to get a few simple tools, put some good music on the stereo, relax and just begin disassembling a Vostok movement, one part at a time. Just a few simple parts. When you feel more confident, you can remove more complex parts. Examine each part to see its shape, design and function. When you think you are ready, you can begin to re-assemble it. Never worry about making mistakes, because you will make some. Remember there are guys here to guide you and there are videos and photos available.
 

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Thank you for this message.!!

These movements are inexpensive and plentiful. I urge everyone to get a few simple tools, put some good music on the stereo, relax and just begin disassembling a Vostok movement, one part at a time. Just a few simple parts. When you feel more confident, you can remove more complex parts. Examine each part to see its shape, design and function. When you think you are ready, you can begin to re-assemble it. Never worry about making mistakes, because you will make some. Remember there are guys here to guide you and there are videos and photos available.
Top quality post.
 

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Are you sure it is absolutely clean?

A very, very thin film of oil is enough to cause the coils to bind together.

To Demagnetise a Hairspring:

Some experts recommend removing the entire Balance and Balance Cock assembly with hairspring attached.

Gently wrap the assembly in a soft lint free cloth. Pass it through the demagnetiser several times. The cloth prevents the hairspring vibrating when the alternating current strikes it.

I have done this many times with success.
Remember to also demagnetise the tweezers, unless they are brass.
Thank you, yes I did resort to taking the whole assy out and into a bath of naptha, still bunching together after a thorough clean and the coils actually move themselves towards a ferrous object so have the demagger on and gently with it wrapped in a soft lint free cloth am slowly getting it to unbunch itself :) I have wondered if it got some coronavirus perhaps because I have heard people saying they got all clenched up from it :p

I have no idea how it became so magged up, I regularly check my tools for magnetism and give them a "wipe" if they start to attract screws etc. I even keep my mag mounted lamps etc well well away from the tools for that reason :( I have a selection of anti-mag tweezers, a set of brass ones and a set of plastic ones as I don't quite trust the so called antimagnetic ones so tend to use the placcy ones for the innards.
 

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I've given up on this particular assy as either my demagger is knackered (cheap chinese blue brick) or its terminally magnetised. I found a very nice condition one with a beautiful hairspring spread from one of them pennies on the pound scrap movements I get in from time to time. Its just had its bath and waiting for me to set microscope up to try and get it to go in smoothly, I have dabbed a drop of the slippery stuff on the bottom jewel saving me having to strip the whole thing down and will pop the top jewel out once I have got it set in place although I could just as easily drop some lube on the topmost pivot but the chances are it will hit the hairspring so by the book it will be done... ish :)

I will prob get in a new demagnetiser as these blue bricks have a reputation of going wrong, I do have one of them all in one watch tool thingies which says it has a demagnetising function, I use it to free up sticky quartz and testing batteries, also diagnoses when quartz are pulsing but I think the demagnetiser claim is false but is brilliant if you have a gummed up quartz watch and just let it whizz the hands round for ten minutes sometimes brings back a dead quartz.
 

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From the trouble shooting we have gone through so far, something seems to be up with the teeth engagement / power-transfer between the main-wheel and the center-wheel. It seems that we are at a point that without stripping the movement we can only guess, many plausible options left.

To describe how to strip, the were to watch out for's, the do's & don'ts, removing the cap-stones, the cleaning, the lubricating, the assembly (and that's even without the faultfinding / corrective action(s) required) is something I'm not going to pen down.

I think I've given it a fair shot and handed our comrade with options on how to proceed. Sending the movement to me, repair, service and retour shipping is going to cost the same as a new movement, whether that's a modern 2414 from Meranom or one of my Soviet NOS.

Other comrades are more than welcome to come up with other "none-stripping" idea's, suggestion and checks or explain the whole servicing and fixing procedure ;-)
It's been a long, long time since I read and posted in this thread but this caught my interest (I've been busy with some odd Swiss and Japanese calibres as of late, but at heart, I'm a Vostok man ;-)).

I have an idea and it's a long shot, but I'm thinking that if there's something wrong with the click spring, the winding crown would immediately slip back. Winding would rotate the ratchet wheel (and the mainspring arbor) and it could possibly give the impressions that the barrel is rotating when it is not. You would have to look at the side of the movement to determine if the barrel itself is rotating when you wind (I believe you did) and not just the ratchet wheel. The click spring sits under the click wheel. Please refer to EndeavourDK's post for terminology.

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The only difference between the 2409 and the 2414 is the calendar works which only consists of a few components, so if you decide to strip the movement I thought you might find my Vostok 2409 Service Walkthrough (with oiling suggestions and a few tips) useful.

Good luck and please keep us updated. I'm really curious to see if we can locate the problem.
 

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Endeavour: I must thank you for all the help you have given us with your excellent repair articles and photos.
I don't think most people realise how much time and effort is required to create such posts.


Anyone is welcome to submit any ideas they have for possible causes of problems.

This is part of the hobby and some folks have fun trying to think of all the possibilities.
Some folks have only a quick theory or two and have no interest in producing a tutorial.
That is OK.

What you don't know is that for every one person who asks about a problem with their watch, there are many other people with the same or similar problem. Most of these folks never post a message and quietly come here to read all the responses and repair ideas.

The theories and ideas we give help to guide them and teach them.

I know this because such people write to me privately and say exactly this.
Indeed! Thanks EndeavourDK!
 

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(---)When I release the crown after some turns, the crown turns back automatically as if I had wound a (very soft) spring. Maybe a hint at something?
Do you mean that the winding crown automatically returns to the winding position once you let go of the crown being in setting position, or do you mean that when in winding position the crown automatically rotates back when you wind it? If the latter I'd definitely say check the click spring. Otherwise, perhaps the setting lever spring (the lid over the keyless works) or the yoke spring (also called "return bar spring" and "clutch lever spring").

I trust the very thorough fault-finding process done by EndevaourDK, but I'm itching so please bear with me...:-d
 

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Does anybody know if I can use rotor screws to attach the movement to the fixing ring?
I've got a 2415.01 with blue screws and a golden rotor. I've got the standard screws for the fixing ring, but I have some blue and some golden rotor screws left and I think I'd like to use those instead, for aesthetic reasons.
I've already tried to replace them and it seems to be fine, but maybe it's ill-advised to do this?
 

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Does anybody know if I can use rotor screws to attach the movement to the fixing ring?
I've got a 2415.01 with blue screws and a golden rotor. I've got the standard screws for the fixing ring, but I have some blue and some golden rotor screws left and I think I'd like to use those instead, for aesthetic reasons.
I've already tried to replace them and it seems to be fine, but maybe it's ill-advised to do this?
I don't see any problem. As long as the fixing ring is in the right position, doesn't move around, and the screws don't interfere with anything (the rotor?) I think you should be all fine. I'd like to see the aesthetic effect. It will probably look pretty cool! Any pictures?
 

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I'm still in the process of ordering a dial with IgorIV, so I can't show you the completed work yet. But here is how the movement will look. It's a Meranom bought 2415.01 movement with blued screws and gilded rotor, attached with gilded rotor screws (komandirskie.com) to a blue metal fixing ring bought on eBay. I had also bought a glass caseback from ebay that under certain lights has a blue or yellow hue. I had hoped that the effect was more subtle. I'm afraid it takes away from the aforementioned aesthetic effect a bit, but it's still nice and I wouldn't have any other use for that caseback, so I'm probably going through with the intended plan. Disclaimer: I don't take good photographs.
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Aarrgh, after I took those photos I dropped the running movement onto a dusty floor! With a quick look through a loupe I can see dust hanging on the isochronism lever and regulating lever. I don't have the courage to take a movement apart just yet. I have a Bergeon dust blower incoming, should I just apply a couple of puffs of air to the balance? Is that enough?
 

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The short answer is... probably but dust egress can be unpredictable so really have a good deep look and hope nothing grindy got onto a oiled surface as it will become a sticky grindy surface so easily.

I would make sure it can't operate until you are super sure its all good and rodico it like crazy what you can't blow away.
 

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Oh, by the way! I ordered this 3D printed movement holder, specifically designed for Vostoks, from Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/WWA8EZVNG/amphibian-movement-holder-lid?optionId=63530001&li=shops
Check out the link, the product description says it all!
If this has been posted somewhere, I apologize, but I couldn't find anything about it when I bought it. I wonder who made this, I'm sure he lurks around these parts somewhere. Maybe one of the Matts or Tarquin? I know they have made/designed custom 3D printed movement holder prototypes before. I look forward to using it!
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You can proabably remove the AR coating with Polywatch or a diamond paste and some very vigorous rubbing :)

As for the dust: blowing air directly onto those parts might just move the dust elsewhere in the movement, only to cause other problems. If you have some clean Rodido you can gently "dab" the dust to remove it.

Maybe don't take my suggestions as the 100% correct thing to do. Not a watchmaker!
 
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