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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For some reason the following popped in to my head, and I lack the information to solve it:

As mechanical watches are built to run fast for a few years, before the oils thicken and the watch slows (and gets serviced etc)...

...assuming the time is 100% correct at construction, the watch runs continuously, and the time is never adjusted...

Question 1:
When the watch runs at the correct time (not fast or slow)...How "fast" will it be compared the real time.

Question 2:
Assuming the watch has run to the point where it is keeping accurate time, but is xx hours fast (question 1) - how long will it take before the watch has slowed due to the thickening of oils etc, before it is telling the correct time.

As I said, random questions, but interesting and entertaining to ponder :) I'd be intrigued to hear from anyone who has owned a Stowa watch (or I guess a 2824 movement) that originally ran fast, and over time ended up running "normally", to try and figure these out!
 

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The variables are too unpredictable to allow for one correct answer. Will you wear the watch every day or in a rotation with other watches? Does "every day" include weekends? How active will you be when wearing the watch? (It is an automatic, after all, and winds based on how vigorously one moves one's wrist.) Will it be subjected to periodic shocks? How often? Etc., etc.

I mean, I suppose that an ETA movement is sufficiently precise that a MTBF calculation could be done for an "average" user in principal, but I wonder if that's ever been attempted.
 

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As mechanical watches are built to run fast for a few years....
Where did you get this from if I may ask. None of my watches I owned for years run faster ????????
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The variables are too unpredictable to allow for one correct answer. Will you wear the watch every day or in a rotation with other watches? Does "every day" include weekends? How active will you be when wearing the watch? (It is an automatic, after all, and winds based on how vigorously one moves one's wrist.) Will it be subjected to periodic shocks? How often? Etc., etc.

I mean, I suppose that an ETA movement is sufficiently precise that a MTBF calculation could be done for an "average" user in principal, but I wonder if that's ever been attempted.
Well, the question is only meant as a bit of fun and is entirely hypothetical. For that purpose why don't we say that it is an automatic that is left permanently on one of those watch winders/stress testers that Jorg showed a video of a few months ago. I guess that's as close to a laboratory test as you could get :D
 

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There's no way to answer your questions without some more data. Numbers, for example, are often helpful in solving many mathematic equations.
We'd have to know how fast the watch is originally running and the rate of slowing due to oil thickening.
Get me those numbers (or, in the case of thickening oil, equations) and its a piece of cake.

On the other hand, I have watches I've owned for over 20 years - none serviced more than once - and I can't tell any discernible difference in accuracy.


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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well that's what I'm asking for. I've only had my mechanical watch for 4 months so don't have the data myself, otherwise I'd have solved it by now :D I was hoping someone out there would be able to say that they had a watch that originally ran 7 seconds fast and 4 years later was keeping perfect time, or along those lines. At least then a guestimate could be made as to rate of time loss etc :D
 

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This is basically impossible to answer. You are not going to get the same amount of oil on each part for each watch made. The variance of the movements will be different too which will effect things.

Now you have the real world usage which will change things. Temperatures that watch is exposed to and how much abuse, g-forces the watch experiences, how many hours a day the watch is worn or even what position the watch is in throughout its life.
 

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I got it from one of your posts:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f36/freq...-official-stowa-thread-37664.html#post1203657

Jorgs FAQ on movements that you quoted and made sticky ;)
Wrong, it does not say that mechanical watches are built to run fast for a few years.... As a matter of fact they do loose some seconds after years which is a matter of oil aging. That's why Jörg explained his way of regulation. Glashütte Original regulates to +/- 3 sec per day and thery are running fin for years. Not built to run fast for the first years.

More important: the amplitude. The average amplitude values of most watch movements made today are between 250° and 300°. As the lubricant ages, this value gradually falls and has impact on the watches' characteristics.
 

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Hey I am new to mechanical watch. (actually just ordered my first one - Stowa Flieger:)) From above, I understand that if the oil inside thickens, we need service. Just curious, is there any way to reduce the rate of thickening?
 

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Well, since watchmakers know that oil thickens there is research on it. Since the first oil has been used a lot of changes have been achieved to create better oil. The problem is to reduce friction to a minimum, this can be done as well oilless, with Si-parts, with a permant lubrication cell, oil free escapements, DLC-layers are probably the most advanced solutions to create a dry escapement. The process to generate such a layer is called Plasma Activated Chemical Vapour Deposition (PACVD).
 

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Well, since watchmakers know that oil thickens there is research on it. Since the first oil has been used a lot of changes have been achieved to create better oil. The problem is to reduce friction to a minimum, this can be done as well oilless, with Si-parts, with a permant lubrication cell, oil free escapements, DLC-layers are probably the most advanced solutions to create a dry escapement. The process to generate such a layer is called Plasma Activated Chemical Vapour Deposition (PACVD).
Damasko, being the innovative company that they are, is the only German brand that I know of that has addressed this area and has made great head-way in doing so.
 

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Damasko, being the innovative company that they are, is the only German brand that I know of that has addressed this area and has made great head-way in doing so.
Not to forget Sinn's DIAPAL, The lubricant-free anchor escapement. The objective of their technology is to prevent the oil from aging as well. Different approach, different way.
 

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Not to forget Sinn's DIAPAL, The lubricant-free anchor escapement. The objective of their technology is to prevent the oil from aging as well. Different approach, different way.
Ah yes, the technologies of Sinn. The only reason I don't like how Sinn offers their technologies is the fact that you have to send your watch back to them because they are the only one that can service it. Kinda less of a positive and more of an inconvenience. I'll stick with the way Damasko does things.

But still, it makes you wonder why more watch companies don't try to make greater strides in this area. Seems like an obvious thing to focus on as a mechanical watch manufacturer. You have to give credit to these two that do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wrong, it does not say that mechanical watches are built to run fast for a few years.... As a matter of fact they do loose some seconds after years which is a matter of oil aging. That's why Jörg explained his way of regulation. Glashütte Original regulates to +/- 3 sec per day and thery are running fin for years. Not built to run fast for the first years.
Ok, so I should have been more specific and said "Jorgs watches are built and regulated to start off a little fast" as opposed to just "mechanical watches".

I'm not entirely sure why people are getting so hung up on the specifics. My question was meant as a bit of lighthearted entertaining horological problem solving. I honestly thought that others might read the questions and think "Heh, now you say that I wonder too..."

It wasn't grounded in any real world application. Yes, every watch is different and it all depends on how much wear the watch gets...I'm not trying to come up with a "one size fits all" solution, I was just curious about some hypothetical question that popped in my head.

Is it a case that no one here has ever had a watch that started off fast, and then several years down the line kept perfect time? I don't care how the watch was worn, it doesn't matter if the data only applies to that one watch, it'd satisfy my question as a rough guestimate that could be 10+ years different from another watch.

I guess the easiest option is to just wait for the next decade until my watch maybe keeps perfect time, and then I can do the sums then.
 

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Well, since watchmakers know that oil thickens there is research on it. Since the first oil has been used a lot of changes have been achieved to create better oil. The problem is to reduce friction to a minimum, this can be done as well oilless, with Si-parts, with a permant lubrication cell, oil free escapements, DLC-layers are probably the most advanced solutions to create a dry escapement. The process to generate such a layer is called Plasma Activated Chemical Vapour Deposition (PACVD).
A bit technical to me, but beautiful explanation =)
 
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