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Hi, I'm new to high-end watches. I recently acquired a Master Calendar used from a reputable dealer through Chrono24. It was running quite fast - around 8 sec/day or a minute per week. So I took it to the JLC dealer and they had it serviced. Now it looks like brand new but still runs 4.5 sec/day fast, which is a minute every two weeks. I know that mechanical watches aren't going to match quartz for accuracy, but is it normal for a watch of this quality to run that fast?
 

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Hi, I'm new to high-end watches. I recently acquired a Master Calendar used from a reputable dealer through Chrono24. It was running quite fast - around 8 sec/day or a minute per week. So I took it to the JLC dealer and they had it serviced. Now it looks like brand new but still runs 4.5 sec/day fast, which is a minute every two weeks. I know that mechanical watches aren't going to match quartz for accuracy, but is it normal for a watch of this quality to run that fast?
This again? No, +8/s per day is not "quite fast", and yes, +4.5/s per day is not just normal, but pretty bloody good.

And it appears that my prediction was correct - you'd fork out good $ for a service only to gain 30sec/week in accuracy. Accuracy of JLC Master Control Calendar

Just enjoy the watch.
 

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If you want “high accuracy” with your mechanical calibre, it is certainly within your reach, regardless of who made your watch.

Every morning, I set my low-end mechanical watch according to the atomic clock on my bookshelf. As I wear the watch throughout the day, it is rotating through likely all six “positions” (face up, face down, crown up, crown right, crown left, crown down). Mechanical watches are optimized for exactly this scenario. By the end of my day, my watch will have gained about +1 second. This I think is more than adequate. And, to provide all available information, my current daily wear watch is using either an ETA or Sellita equivalent for the famous Valjoux 7750. Your watch movement is far, far more carefully constructed than mine. If you leave any mechanical watch in one position only for a long time, it will not be as accurate as it would be if you are wearing it.

I suspect there is nothing mechanically wrong with your watch. In fact, it’s my opinion that your watch probably didn’t require a servicing either. Nevertheless, you did have it serviced, so I think if there were any mechanical defects (such as worn gears/levers or inadequate lubricant) those issues will have been properly resolved.

Since you seem to like mechanical movements, you might wish to consider investing in a watch timing device. At the moment, I have a very, very small watch collection. Your watch collection is likely larger than mine by a very big multiple. But since I very simply must have time accurate down to the second every day with every watch I wear, I bought a Weishi Timegrapher. They are very inexpensive, when compared to the cost of a decent mechanical watch. Therefore, I know down to one tenth of a second the average daily time drift of every watch I own in all six positions. But frankly it doesn’t matter all that much. The difference between minimum and maximum drift for my mechanical calibres might be a total of 6 seconds per day (-1/+5 or similar). But when I actually wear the watch, the timing accuracy is simply marvelous, no more than +1 as I progress through the day.

As I said, it’s my opinion that your watch might not have needed a service. What you may want to look into is whether your caliber can be regulated. Regulating a mechanical watch is not servicing the watch. It is adjusting specific parts of the movement so that the overall daily accuracy is improved. I think, perhaps, this might be the direction you might like to explore.

Keep in mind that a subset of mechanical movement owners who have a calibre with “hacking seconds” want the watch to run fast by a few seconds when the watch is in a preselected position (for me, it’s the face up position). This allows the wearer to hack the seconds into perfect accuracy each morning and have (typically) perfect timing accuracy for the day.

Normally I would not write a post on such an esoteric practice, but you seem to want very high accuracy from your mechanical watch, and in my opinion, you can have it. :)

I do this every day with my watches, and it works for me. Even with my current daily wearer being a Sellita/ETA, the accuracy is phenomenal.
 

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but is it normal for a watch of this quality to run that fast?
This is normal for your JLC, but not normal for Rolex and Omega, or even younger brand such as LUC, Blancpain ...

The goal of JLC is 1 min per week in accuracy, so the accuracy you should expect from JLC is around 12s/d. The goal of Rolex is 2s/d, or 1 min per month. Omega is similar. The reason why JLC could not normally achieve 1 min per month accuracy is, it cannot mass produce balance assembly with reasonable amount of positional error (<3s/d) and stability (due to harispring material). You can always fine tuning but that is not a modern industry. JLC movement is too small, and so the balance wheel. You should list your JLC watch as jewelry, not instrument for mission critical.

Now why your watch is still 5s/d after service? Probably your watch has large positional error and this 5s/d is the optimal error in considering of all positions. If you do care, I suggest sent it to JLC customer service and ask them to replace the whole balance assembly, upper and lower cap jewels.

Or, sell your JLC and go to the next door: Rolex forum, and learn about the greatest human achievement in horology.
 

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The goal of JLC is 1 min per week in accuracy, so the accuracy you should expect from JLC is around 12s/d.
Would love to know where you got that info - as far as I'm aware, JLC doesn't publish any info regarding accuracy.


Now why your watch is still 5s/d after service? Probably your watch has large positional error and this 5s/d is the optimal error in considering of all positions. If you do care, I suggest sent it to JLC customer service and ask them to replace the whole balance assembly, upper and lower cap jewels.
-4/+6 is COSC spec - they're not going to make any intervention on a watch running +5spd (nor is an intervention necessary)

Or, sell your JLC and go to the next door: Rolex forum, and learn about the greatest human achievement in horology.
Rolex makes simple watches very, very well. Pumping out a million pieces running -2/+2 is no small feat, and big respect to them for that. But "greatest human achievement in horology"... surely that comment is satire.
 

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Would love to know where you got that info - as far as I'm aware, JLC doesn't publish any info regarding accuracy.
You don't know quantum mechanics too. Does quantum mechanics ever exist?


-4/+6 is COSC spec - they're not going to make any intervention on a watch running +5spd (nor is an intervention necessary)
The core value of COSC is not -4/+6, it is the traceable, uniform, independent accreditation procedure. Self claimed COSC is similar to self claimed medical doctor, is not commonly acceptable in watch industry.

As a manufacture, COSC program does not limit to -4/+6 only. It is a handy tool to oversight watch industry's quality assurance program, providing feedback to industry and increasing the end customer satisfaction. As we already saw here, -4/+6 is the worst acceptable upper limit and our customer will NOT happy with a +5spd watch.

By the way, JLC watches do not have COSC certification.
 

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You don't know quantum mechanics too. Does quantum mechanics ever exist?
What an extraordinary response. Instead of sharing the source of your information (which you clearly don't have), you make a snarky comment. Well done.

The core value of COSC is not -4/+6, it is the traceable, uniform, independent accreditation procedure. Self claimed COSC is similar to self claimed medical doctor, is not commonly acceptable in watch industry.

As a manufacture, COSC program does not limit to -4/+6 only. It is a handy tool to oversight watch industry's quality assurance program, providing feedback to industry and increasing the end customer satisfaction. As we already saw here, -4/+6 is the worst acceptable upper limit and our customer will NOT happy with a +5spd watch.

By the way, JLC watches do not have COSC certification.
Of course there is more to COSC certification than the -4/+6 - I never claimed that JLC's are COSC certified (they're not), however JLC's 1000 hour control is more rigorous than COSC testing. JLC's undergo 1000 consecutive hours of testing (COSC testing is less than half that) and testing is performed in 6 positions, as compared with COSC’s 5. JLC’s testing is carried out with the movement fitted within the case vs COSC tests which is carried out on just the movement (which can potentially alter the accuracy once the movement is cased up).

My point - which you seem to have missed spectacularly - was that a watch running +5s/day is doing just fine, and JLC is very, very unlikely to take it back to regulate further.
 

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FWIW, I keep three JLC's and four Omega's in wrist rotation. I keep most of them wound throughout, but some are just sitting idle. A simple observation (to validate all above points, minus the quantum mechanics one): 0 to +2s/day range when worn 24hr/day (yes, the obsession doesn't stop while sleeping!!)

The Omegas are all co-axial but not METAS, two JLC's are 20+ of age, plus a 2019 Polaris, all Master Control. One of the older JLC's was recently serviced, the other unknown.

The most worn/daily beater is an Aqua Terra 8601 (service start 01/2019), which performs +1s/3d. If I put her down for a day, it's +4s/d, which is confirmed on the time grapher.

Moral of the story?
 
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