WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone,
I had some questions regarding receiving a bank wire from a newbie with no references, just and Ebay account with minimal feedback, albeit positive. I have read the sticky in the sales forum and need some further advice what to do. I am doing my research at the moment and will not ship out until I am 100% positive and comfortable with the transaction. Just general concerns pertaining to counter credits, shipping to a business, etc. Any help or advice how to smell out a potential scam please let me know!
Daniel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,372 Posts
Certified Bank Cheque or Money order is really the way to go.

Anyone with your (USA) account and routing numbers can withdraw money from your account by ACH debit. For personal accounts, this can usually be reversed within 60 days. For business accounts it can be quite different. Wells Fargo, for example, only allows one day before the debit is permanent. Their explanation to me was "It's a business account,and you should be paying attention." Some banks are offering ACH-filter services to block bogus debits. Similar are anti-check-fraud services, where you give the bank a list of checks you've written and the bank will deny any other incoming checks. With the Check 21 changes there's little difference between checks and ACH debits now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,424 Posts
Have the buyer send you a Postal Money Order. Problem solved.:-!
How would the buyer have any protection against a seller that cashes the the money order and not send the watch? Isn't the buyer taking a risk here with this method?:-s
I only ask because I've never made a purchase to a private seller or seller of any legitimate business using a money order via mail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Certified Bank Cheque or Money order is really the way to go.

Anyone with your (USA) account and routing numbers can withdraw money from your account by ACH debit. For personal accounts, this can usually be reversed within 60 days. For business accounts it can be quite different. Wells Fargo, for example, only allows one day before the debit is permanent. Their explanation to me was "It's a business account,and you should be paying attention." Some banks are offering ACH-filter services to block bogus debits. Similar are anti-check-fraud services, where you give the bank a list of checks you've written and the bank will deny any other incoming checks. With the Check 21 changes there's little difference between checks and ACH debits now.
I think this is a great point and people should avoid sending out their bank info to just anyone. References take a while to accrue and they are a must for me going forward. I have opted to avoid this potential buyer as too many questions arised. Sellers also need to be schooled in counter credits vs incoming cleared bank wires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,934 Posts
Receiving a bank transfer should be safe for the seller. The buyer would need to trust that the seller would send something, and I don't believe there's any any for a buyer to reverse a bank transfer once it's gone through.

Cashier's checks and most money orders are worthless for the receiver - anyone can print up something that looks like a check or money order. One can deposit anything in to their bank account, but it could be weeks or months before it gets caught as a fake check or MO - and by then you've already shipped the item. That's how all of the I've-made-a-mistake-and-sent-a-too-large-certified-cashiers-check-just-western-union-me-the-differece-and-keep-$100-for-your-troubles scams work. Someone sends you a fake check for something but it's made for a larger amount. You deposit the check into your account and then western union them the overpayment (they never seem to want to actual item they've supposedly bought from you.) After a while the bank returns the cashier's check and you're out your money...

A USPS money order should be a bit safer because you can take it to the post office and they should be able to at least verify that the serial number of the money order matches the dollar amount shown. They may also be able to tell when and where it was purchased.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
A USPS money order is perfectly safe. Once cashed you take the money, walk out of the post office, and that's the end of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
829 Posts
I don't trust wire transfer because there is no buyer protection. If the seller is scamming you, then you're SOL. I know many hate Paypal, but at least there's protection with it. I prefer a credit card sale because many cc's offer buyer protection. I've been fortunate to have never been scammed, but the law of averages will catch up one day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,372 Posts
Paypal is a safer transaction then MO or wire transfer. There are also many escrow services that are reputable. I only deal with Paypal online and wouldn't complete a transaction any other way.
 

·
Moderator Public Forum
Joined
·
22,768 Posts
Hello Everyone,
I had some questions regarding receiving a bank wire from a newbie with no references, just and Ebay account with minimal feedback, albeit positive. I have read the sticky in the sales forum and need some further advice what to do. I am doing my research at the moment and will not ship out until I am 100% positive and comfortable with the transaction. Just general concerns pertaining to counter credits, shipping to a business, etc. Any help or advice how to smell out a potential scam please let me know!
Daniel
Two basic questions:
Where is the buyer located.
How much are we talking about.

A true bank-to-bank wire transfer is a one way street - once you get the money it is yours. It comes at a considerable cost if you are located in the USA. If it is an individual buying the watch I would be suspicious about sending it to a business.

I'm not sure what a counter credit is - was the buyer mentioning this as a means of payment?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Two basic questions:
Where is the buyer located.
How much are we talking about.

A true bank-to-bank wire transfer is a one way street - once you get the money it is yours. It comes at a considerable cost if you are located in the USA. If it is an individual buying the watch I would be suspicious about sending it to a business.

I'm not sure what a counter credit is - was the buyer mentioning this as a means of payment?
It is for my GO Chrono and we're talking about $4K. So the buyer tells me he will wire the money to my account, he lives in one city in CA, but I should send it to his mothers work (a bank) that is nowhere near his home city. The deal just struck me as odd and I was uncomfortable, hence my cancellation and fear. I have just read about a pretty scary bank wire scam out of CA and it involved a buyer having the seller ship to a place of business. If it doesn't feel right I tend to walk away, especially if it is a $4K watch. Didn't help the buyer couldn't prove any high end transactions on the forums, no user ID, and wouldn't call me when I gave him my number.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
That does sound like a fishy transaction. Probably best that you walked away from it. There is always the potential for wire transfers being sent with stolen account information, which would mean that you would eventually be liable for the cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,514 Posts
Daniel that was a scam about to happen ...

good thing you were suspicious. The details are the same as several scams I've read about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,471 Posts
USPS Money Order. That's all I will take when selling a watch. If the buyer doesn't like it, he/she can go elsewhere. I was scammed once. And that will be the only time I ever get scammed again. Live and learn. Lose and learn even more.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,599 Posts
USPS Money Order. That's all I will take when selling a watch. If the buyer doesn't like it, he/she can go elsewhere. I was scammed once. And that will be the only time I ever get scammed again. Live and learn. Lose and learn even more.

Last year I worked 3 cases involving counterfeit USPS money orders. They looked real all the way down to the watermarks, and it was a couple of weeks before it came back on the person that unknowingly cashed them. The bottom line is ... BUY THE SELLER or in this case Purchaser. In other words, know who you are doing business with. I won't buy from somebody I haven't seen around on the forums. Also, I only pay up to what I am willing to lose if it comes to that. For real expensive stuff, I'm going to an AD or Grey market dealer ... NOT a private seller.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,934 Posts
Last year I worked 3 cases involving counterfeit USPS money orders. They looked real all the way down to the watermarks, and it was a couple of weeks before it came back on the person that unknowingly cashed them.
Just curious. Were these deposited in a bank or did the person take them to the post office to cash them? I always take them to the PO and ask the clerks to verify them. They usually push a few buttons on their computers and after a short while tell me that the amount on the MO matches the serial number and that all is good - and then give me the cash. Hopefully that's a good way to verify if it's legit or not.

I have received money orders and cashiers checks that I know are bad. Every now and again I may play along with the scammers just to see what they'll send me. The cashiers checks certainly do look good, and I could see where someone could be fooled into depositing them. Funny, once I received the checks they never bothered asking me where their item was or never sent their shippers out to collect what they bought. I also thought it was funny that in a few cases I received fake company checks, and the company accounts they used were from very suspect sorts of companies - like the ones who'll buy your gold and jewelry. Scammers scamming scammers...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,431 Posts
I did couple wires and a money order once. I usually condone my business via paypal. I deal with members that have references but I've dealt with new members with low post counts but I have them provide references with solid members. Luckily, they all turned out ok (knock on wood) Daniel, great job on smelling out something fishy and odd. I just read it and it didn't sound right at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
The whole deal sounded fishy from the start, everyone had a different last name and there should be "no worries" on my end I kept being told. Sellers should have some kind of resource here, or somewhere else, that educates them on bankwire fraud, new scams, and what is the most safe methods of payment (listed). I know there are some stickys involving this, but apparatley the game is ever changing. To top it all off, I have received several emails from the potential buyer criticizing my choice not to deal with him, hilarious!
 

·
Moderator Public Forum
Joined
·
22,768 Posts
It is for my GO Chrono and we're talking about $4K. So the buyer tells me he will wire the money to my account, he lives in one city in CA, but I should send it to his mothers work (a bank) that is nowhere near his home city. The deal just struck me as odd and I was uncomfortable, hence my cancellation and fear. I have just read about a pretty scary bank wire scam out of CA and it involved a buyer having the seller ship to a place of business. If it doesn't feel right I tend to walk away, especially if it is a $4K watch. Didn't help the buyer couldn't prove any high end transactions on the forums, no user ID, and wouldn't call me when I gave him my number.
I think you made a wise choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,409 Posts
Paypal is a safer transaction then MO or wire transfer. There are also many escrow services that are reputable. I only deal with Paypal online and wouldn't complete a transaction any other way.
+1

It's the only way to protect both buyer and seller. I would never buy from anyone requiring a wire transfer. Money order only if I know them personally.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top