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Discussion Starter #1
Bought from a member here, via gifting unfortunately, and returned it because of undisclosed defects.
Seller agreed via email in no uncertain terms to provide a full refund.
Seller received the watch yesterday morning, immediately relisted it and even bumped it once. He has not responded to email or PM regarding the refund.

At which point do I post a detailed account of email exchanges and photos of the watch in question so at the very least it will not be resold to another member unaware of its condition or of dealing with an individual who does not honor his commitments? At a minimum I would like to save other members from the same fate.

Also, without a refund I am technically still the owner and reselling it once more is at the very least unscrupulous.

Thank you
 

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I'd give it 48 hours before you take more public action, giving the member fair warning of your intentions to escalate the matter. Since you chose to send funds as a gift, you may have limited your options with PayPal (assuming that's who you used) for getting your money back. I hope not, but I'm trying to see a reason PayPal could defend your purchase since you chose to circumvent their fee structure which is there in part to support buyers. Good luck, I sincerely hope it turns out well for you.
 

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And give the guy some credit, he's probably trying to sell it to pay you back. He could have told you to go shove it.


Bought from a member here, via gifting unfortunately, and returned it because of undisclosed defects.
Seller agreed via email in no uncertain terms to provide a full refund.
Seller received the watch yesterday morning, immediately relisted it and even bumped it once. He has not responded to email or PM regarding the refund.

At which point do I post a detailed account of email exchanges and photos of the watch in question so at the very least it will not be resold to another member unaware of its condition or of dealing with an individual who does not honor his commitments? At a minimum I would like to save other members from the same fate.

Also, without a refund I am technically still the owner and reselling it once more is at the very least unscrupulous.

Thank you
 

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If the seller has relisted the item and is asking for PP gift, please find that sales ad and report it to the moderators.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If the seller has relisted the item and is asking for PP gift, please find that sales ad and report it to the moderators.
I sincerely was not aware of this - I didn't even know PP gift existed and only used it because seller brought it up in PM's during negotiations on pricing. Thanks.
 

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If the seller agreed to take the watch back, he should refund the money the day he receives it, once he validates that it is in the condition he sent it. If he's selling before refunding the money,that's more than a little bad form, it's wrong.

If he doesn't have the money to refund you, than he should have explained that to you.

I'm not addressing the condition of the watch....he agreed to a refund and took it back, so it's not relevant (IMO)
 

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Normally I would give it 3 days. Not all of us are beholden to the internet 24/7. However, since he has already relisted it, I agree that the refund should have been done at the time of the relist.
 

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An issue that hasn't been addressed is the new listing.

You don't state it outright, but you are implying that the new listing trying to resell the watch makes no mention of the defects that caused you to return the watch in the first place.

I can understand someone not disclosing defects they are unaware of.....but in this case, you have brought the defects to the sellers attention and returned the watch. If the new listing doesn't reflect that information, that is proof enough that the member does not plan on proceeding in good faith.

You can say nothing, hoping that the member will give you the refund (likely with funds received by defrauding someone else). Or you can report the member now, and go public with the information (likely saving someone else your fate, but ensuring you do not get a refund). Both options suck, but personally, I'd go with the latter.
 

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You are entitled to a full refund the moment he received the watch. Give him 24 hours to respond then take the steps you can. I'm not clear on how you paid. Hopefully it was by credit card through Paypal. If so start the complaint process there. Also notify the owner of WUS.

Remember that the refund is independent of his success at reselling the watch. He has your money and should return it.
 

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Bought from a member here, via gifting unfortunately, and returned it because of undisclosed defects.
Paying by PayPal "Gift" leaves you with very little recourse, unfortunately. Even if the seller keeps the watch and sends you no refund, you cannot make a claim through PayPal because according to the transaction you did not buy anything - you "gifted" the seller your money. Nothing to claim.

That is one reason why our sales forum has rule #8:

Describing a sales transaction as a "gift" to avoid legitimate fees (i.e. Paypal), is illegal and violates WUS rules and is subject to thread deletion or account suspension.

Even if you paid by credit card through PayPal gift, you have no recourse.

Right now about all you have is faith in the good will of the seller. By making public his Member name and showing us the re-listing thread for the watch in question the public pressure might further persuade the seller to do the right thing.

HTH
 

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Hopefully this wasn't for a too expensive piece.... You have his personal information. If it gets to it, I would suggest contacting his local police station and filing a complaint as well...

hell, depending on how much money we are talking about, I might be tempted to confront the guy in person. At the very least, please let the mods know who the guy is so they can try to contact him or delete is FS post... no sense in letting someone else get suckered....
 

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If the seller refuses a refund, go your bank and have them do a "chargeback". Fraud is most certainly a reason to use a chargeback on a transaction. I've had to do it before. If you used a Credit Card, you can still do a chargeback and it will even be easier to get your money back than with the bank. However the clock is ticking and you need to get on that. You only have so long to use a chargeback on a transaction. I think it's 90 days with a bank and around 6 months depending on your credit card company.
 

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Unfortunately, there is little that can be done with a PayPal gift. Hopefully, you used a credit card.

Good luck, I wish that the seller does the right thing.
 

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I always provide my telephone # when buying and selling.
If you have the seller's # try giving him a buzz.
 

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If the seller refuses a refund, go your bank and have them do a "chargeback". Fraud is most certainly a reason to use a chargeback on a transaction. I've had to do it before. If you used a Credit Card, you can still do a chargeback and it will even be easier to get your money back than with the bank. However the clock is ticking and you need to get on that. You only have so long to use a chargeback on a transaction. I think it's 90 days with a bank and around 6 months depending on your credit card company.
I don't believe a chargeback is possible.

The only written contract here is the contract between the OP and PayPal. All that contract states is that the OP is sending a "Gift" of money. A chargeback claim would have to be based on PayPal not carrying out their part of the contract, but it appears that PayPal did indeed send the money, so no failure on PayPal's part.

The person who received the money simply received a "Gift" that the OP was kind enough to send him.

I'm not a lawyer, but I see no fraud here.

Sure, OP and the other guy exchanged some PM's or e-mails about a watch, but any transfer of that property between them seems to be outside the contract for a "Gift" transaction with PayPal.

Just my dos centavos. ;-)

HTH
 

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FWIW I have always given the members here the benefit of the doubt and have not been defrauded.

I recently had a watch lost in the mail and had to sell another watch to pay the buyer back. So I know how he feels but he should have better communication.

The only real problem I have with our members are the people to flake out on a purchase after committing to buy.

Best of luck in with no other information I think that this to work out okay.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 

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If he shows the bank emails of promises to send goods if he gifts him so much money on PayPal, then that should be proof enough for a chargeback. I have been caught in a similar situation and won my case with my bank because THAT IS FRAUD AND IS COVERED BY YOUR PROTECTION POLICY WITH YOUR BANK. Now, I do not know if my bank received their money back from paypal, but I received my money back from my bank. I've been using the same bank since I was 16 years old, and their customer service has always been through the roof. I hope yours is the same. By the way, the transaction was ~450 dollars.
 

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This Pay-Pal gift non-sense is the worst idea out there! The 3% or so that Pay-Pal charges is well worth it for some buyer protection

I would contact the mods about the re-listing if it does not disclose the known defects. I hope it works out for you. Good luck!
 

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If he shows the bank emails of promises to send goods if he gifts him so much money on PayPal, then that should be proof enough for a chargeback. I have been caught in a similar situation and won my case with my bank because THAT IS FRAUD AND IS COVERED BY YOUR PROTECTION POLICY WITH YOUR BANK. Now, I do not know if my bank received their money back from paypal, but I received my money back from my bank. I've been using the same bank since I was 16 years old, and their customer service has always been through the roof. I hope yours is the same. By the way, the transaction was ~450 dollars.
Good to know!

I certainly hope that is the case here.
 
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