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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
ALPHA(s) versus…

I've read different threads about Alphas' quality, recently, and I've been wondering how discribing "quality" ?

For some people, it will be the overall look, for others, finish ; others will have interest in the movement only… different points of view :think:

For me, the comparison is simply with my most distinctive watch, the Omega Speedmaster Pro in its higher grade, with both saphire cristals and rhodium plated movement (3573.50.00) It's interesting to note most purists prefer the more historical 3570.50.00 with hesalite and steel back. Well to each is own, but for my part, I just couldn't buy a 3030€ (that was then, it's currently priced at 3400€ !!!) watch with... plexi ? :-s:-d

and the Lemania movement is simply too beautiful to be hidden…



So, the test has always been to put another watch side by side with my Speedy, and compare the "quality" (it's restrictive, of course, and what's at stake here is a general impression)

Another point I've noticed in discussions, is the question of "homages"…
Some people seem genuinely crossed with homages :think: and state there's no such thing as homage, only fakes and copy.

Well, then again, side-by-side pictures could be interesting to sort things out.

SO, I submit to your distinguished judgement this thread, feel free to post your X against Y, it could be informative (It's not necessarly a Alpha against Omega thread, should I precise. Every homage feel free to participate ;-) )



So, I start with my last Alpha, baptised Radiomaster by a friend of mine ;-)






And then, a few others…











:roll:

If you have homages or lookalikes (seiko 5 vs Rolex DayDate) but not the inspiration, maybe could you use a picture as a back image :think: Something like this :



:roll:
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Hi Reno,

Thanks for the beautiful pics! :-! Your photography skills seem to reach new heights!

If you see them side by side you do not guess that one is 50x more expensive than the others :think:.

Except for the movement picture. That Lemania is a beauty!:p

Regards,

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Hi Reno,

Thanks for the beautiful pics! :-! Your photography skills seem to reach new heights!

If you see them side by side you do not guess that one is 50x more expensive than the others :think:.

Except for the movement picture. That Lemania is a beauty!:p

Regards,

Martin
Thanks pal ;-)

And I'll be able to admire it more often, now I've changed the bracelet for a black leather on the Speedy this morning…



So the bottom is more "reachable" for undiscreet eyes ;-)





It's a nice change, and great for this cold season |>
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Omega is even making an Alpha homage!



 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

The Speedy looks great on leather, in my humble opinion better than on steel :-!

The speedy is probably the only current Omega which I think is worth buying new. All the others I find overpriced....

Regards,

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Omega is even making an Alpha homage!

Ah, the Legend :-! that's a nice Speedy |>|>|>

:think: that makes me think, we can add prestigious brands such as Rolex vs Omega in the story of homage, of course…

1963 (officially 1964 for the name) Rolex Daytona
2006 (?) Speedmaster Legend

Makes me think of another one :


(around 1924 if I'm right)
and

(1938 for the first Radiomir… with Rolex movement)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

The Speedy looks great on leather, in my humble opinion better than on steel :-!

The speedy is probably the only current Omega which I think is worth buying new. All the others I find overpriced....

Regards,

Martin
Yup. I'm planning to buy a brown Hirsch Rivetta in a while :p

Well, they're certainly expensive (and expensivier after the autumn price rise) but if you compare them to other outrageously overpriced brands ;-) What's this ex-italian brand selling Unitas around 4000€ again ? :think::-d and all these 7750 chronos above 2000€
Damn, there are even fools out there ready to buy a Miyota 8215 for nearly 400€… :oops: that's me. Soooorry :-d

Plus I'm drolling over this model :





Damn… I love that Chronoscope :think:
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

SO, I submit to your distinguished judgement this thread, feel free to post your X against Y, it could be informative (It's not necessarly a Alpha against Omega thread, should I precise. Every homage feel free to participate ;-) )
Excellent thought provoking post Reno! :-! And some great pictures (as usual!) I only wish I had a watch to make a comparison with. I guess my nicest watch so far would be my Sea-gull M177s.

I have some grail watches that I would like to get in the next few years. One is the sapphire sandwich Speedmaster. A very fine watch you have there.

Omega is even making an Alpha homage!
I think they may be getting a little nervous with the competition! :-d :-d

Cheers,
gigfy
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Excellent thought provoking post Reno! :-! And some great pictures (as usual!) I only wish I had a watch to make a comparison with. I guess my nicest watch so far would be my Sea-gull M177s.

I have some grail watches that I would like to get in the next few years. One is the sapphire sandwich Speedmaster. A very fine watch you have there.



I think they may be getting a little nervous with the competition! :-d :-d

Cheers,
gigfy
:thanks gigfy

There's a funny thing about that whole homage thing…

A few months ago, I bought this watch :



and I hesitated with the blue model… but I finally prefered the black one that didn't exist at Omega !!! (only the blue was available, if I'm not mistaken, but I remember checking at Omega's site)
And a few weeks later, they finally issued it :-d



(someone please corrects me if I'm wrong, but I sincerely don't remember seing it before on Omega's site… there was another black model, but not this one, with 3-6-9 subdials and the speedmaster bracelet)


:-d
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

I can appreciate the beauty of the movement in your Omega and I am sure that if I understood the engineering involved, I would appreciate it even more. However, I see this type of stuff as an example of diminishing return. By this I mean the amount invested to make this top of the line movement does not gain the customer much other than impressing his buddies (or the blond in the bar). Who shows off the back of their watch anyway? What is the improvement in accuracy with this movement when a very standard Orient or Seiko (or maybe Chinese) movement can function within COSC standard out of the box and can be easily regulated if necessary?

This reminds me of a thread a couple of months ago in the Seiko, Citizen, Orient forum. Someone had cracked open the case of their Orient 300M Saturation diver and was surprised to see an unadorned movement not much more advanced than the entry level movement found in $50 Three Star Orients. Now this diver is the top of the line for Orient and sell for more than $1000. Many owners posted that they didn't care what the movement looked like since the solid caseback meant that they were not supposed to see the movement anyway and they were more than happy with the performance as far as accuracy. In addition, they felt there were other features of the watch that justified the cost. What did surprise me was the number of people who felt that a $1000 watch was required to have a more sophisticated movement regardless if it was necessary or improved the performance. It just had to be there and if it wasn't then the watch was a rip off.

I guess my point is that there are some of us who see watches as an accessory to keep time (go figure) and perhaps present a tangible object that reflects our personality. Then there are others that seem to have some kind of insecurity about what a watch really is and have created these "standards" where if they are not met then the watch is inferior without really understanding the necessity of the standards in the first place.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

I can appreciate the beauty of the movement in your Omega and I am sure that if I understood the engineering involved, I would appreciate it even more. However, I see this type of stuff as an example of diminishing return. By this I mean the amount invested to make this top of the line movement does not gain the customer much other than impressing his buddies (or the blond in the bar). Who shows off the back of their watch anyway? What is the improvement in accuracy with this movement when a very standard Orient or Seiko (or maybe Chinese) movement can function within COSC standard out of the box and can be easily regulated if necessary?

This reminds me of a thread a couple of months ago in the Seiko, Citizen, Orient forum. Someone had cracked open the case of their Orient 300M Saturation diver and was surprised to see an unadorned movement not much more advanced than the entry level movement found in $50 Three Star Orients. Now this diver is the top of the line for Orient and sell for more than $1000. Many owners posted that they didn't care what the movement looked like since the solid caseback meant that they were not supposed to see the movement anyway and they were more than happy with the performance as far as accuracy. In addition, they felt there were other features of the watch that justified the cost. What did surprise me was the number of people who felt that a $1000 watch was required to have a more sophisticated movement regardless if it was necessary or improved the performance. It just had to be there and if it wasn't then the watch was a rip off.
John, I couldn't agree more with you :)
Well, actually, believe me, I really didn't buy a Speedy to impress anyone but me, because the vast majority of people around me have strictly no interest in watches anymore, and when they do, it's to drool over Guess/Hugo Boss quartz watches :-d

When I meet someone who's slightly interested in the subject and I have the Speedy on the wrist, I show him the movement and he is generally amazed (does he immediately go to the next AD to buy a swiss watch ?... well, no :roll: ) so believe me, I've bought this watch in January 2008, and I might have shown it to three co-workers who are in the watch hobby and maybe 5 other persons in the whole company (we're around 4000 employees), and certainly no blond in the bar (my GF wouldn't let me !! :-d )(hey, I don't even go to bars !! :-d )

For my defense ;-) the Speedy means much more to me than the object only.
As a child, I was fascinated by the space conquest and was a big sci-fi fan.
Each time I look at this watch, I think about those men who walked on the moon surface... and it makes my mind wander :roll: and I feel GREAT... how much do you value this ? :)
No kidding, call me loony, that's how I am :-d

At a certain point of my life, I just HAD to have this watch, it has become some sort of OBSESSION and it was just too much to bare... so I bought it, and never regret it for a second :-! but that doesn't mean I don't fully appreciate cheap unexpensive other watches...

I guess my point is that there are some of us who see watches as an accessory to keep time (go figure) and perhaps present a tangible object that reflects our personality. Then there are others that seem to have some kind of insecurity about what a watch really is and have created these "standards" where if they are not met then the watch is inferior without really understanding the necessity of the standards in the first place.

John
Again, I agree ;-)
It seems some guys seem really get agressive towards anything that isn't swiss or outrageously expensive ;-)

My conclusion is always the same in this matter :
My Speedy MUST last 10 years without any problems or I'll be MAD :-|
If my Cheapos last 5 years without any problems, I'll be delighted.
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Sorry Reno. I hope I didn't offend you as I didn't intend to. I should have thought better that you actually have the Omega. I think I was getting a little too philosphical as it was the end of a 4 day holiday and my brain was feeling more alive than normal.

Actually I respect you as someone who can celebrate both ends of the watch spectrum, the alpha and omega if you will.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Sorry Reno. I hope I didn't offend you as I didn't intend to. I should have thought better that you actually have the Omega. I think I was getting a little too philosphical as it was the end of a 4 day holiday and my brain was feeling more alive than normal.

Actually I respect you as someone who can celebrate both ends of the watch spectrum, the alpha and omega if you will.

John

No sweat John ;-)
When I say "I agree", I MEAN IT, I really agree with what you said. The only category I didn't felt I belong was the "show off" one ;-)
(Plus I must apologize, I haven't been talking in English for a few years now and I frequently realize I'm not very clear when I write :-( )

I just wanted to explain the reasons why I PERSONNALY bought the Omega… quite a weird exercise, should I say. :) Most of the time, I must justify why I buy Alphas, and why I find them great :-d )

And it's a good thing getting philosophical ;-) like one of the most proeminent philosophers of the last century stated : "Life goes by fast, and if you don't slow down, you'll miss it. So slow down."
Can't remember if it was Jean-Paul Sartre or Ferris Bueller :think:

:-d

One very recent example (I've been a real #ss this midday, sorry, just playing) : I've been wearing the Speedy for two days now, and today after the lunch at the office, one of the girls noticed it (that's a first in months, the black strap seems to attract more attention, not my fault !!) and asked what it was… I reply "it's a cheap chinese watch" and nobody noticed :-d
She asked how much it was, and I said "under 30€" (yes, I know I'm a bad guy) and once again, no reaction from the group…

I finally told her what was the real nature of the object, but it's one more example of the complete vanity of trying to impress people with a… watch ? :-d
I certainly don't even try ;-)

The only brand I could think of that could have an impact on people could be Rolex, because everybody have heard the name… but I'm quite sure not much could identify a precise model, even the Submariner. :think:

Again, for the rest, I'm in a complete agreement with you, pal ! Really no offense taken.

Take care ! :)
Renaud

PS : I've reread your previous post ; I see you're in the Seiko forum… I go there sometimes, I'm a very proud owner of a nice Diver's 200 pepsi :-!
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Ferris and JP. I spent many hours with both. Ferris is much more fun.

"Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Ferris and JP. I spent many hours with both. Ferris is much more fun.

"Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."
:-d
I've seen the film again recently after many years... damn, that brings back memories :-d and... Mia Sara :roll:

 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Alpha vs Audemars Piguet

 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Regarding the comparison of cheaper Chinese creations versus Omega et all:
IMHO the Chinese have done well in offering acceptable quality (for the price & generally meeting most folks expectations) & providing alternative designs which admittedly are similar to the better known "European luxury brands".
The watches are not copies in the sense we normally use the term in this industry, & the Alphas which started this thread, do seem from the pics, to have a better finish than most el-cheapos. That said I have to say the Omegas in particular have exquisite face design which in every case is superior to the Alphas. although the Alphas are certainly not gross.
I cannot comment on performance, reliability, or life comparisons but the more knowledgeable comments here seem to indicate that overall there may not be much difference.
I will likely never be able to afford an Omega (costing nearly as much as a small car) but I will never knock an organisation that contributes so much & has built such a reputation, if they can sell at the prices listed good for them, after all I never hear whispers that Rolex is going broke tho' the current economic climate may change things somewhat.
Thanks to Reno for starting this very interesting thread & to all who supplied such great pics.
Pete
 

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Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

I think the quality is just as good as expensive watches!!!!
Even though swiss watches are finished alot better, then a chinese or japanese watch. They still only have the same 2 year waranty. And these days where most of the parts of an ETA watch are made in china, how can they say it's THAT much better?
I'm starting to regret buying alot of new Swiss watches, that have failed working within a year. They might be under warranty, but it takes forever. It's much easyier just to go buy a new chinese watch.
Chinese Watches have improved so much in the last few years, I think the Swiss might be in trouble
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

Regarding the comparison of cheaper Chinese creations versus Omega et all:
IMHO the Chinese have done well in offering acceptable quality (for the price & generally meeting most folks expectations) & providing alternative designs which admittedly are similar to the better known "European luxury brands".
The watches are not copies in the sense we normally use the term in this industry, & the Alphas which started this thread, do seem from the pics, to have a better finish than most el-cheapos. That said I have to say the Omegas in particular have exquisite face design which in every case is superior to the Alphas. although the Alphas are certainly not gross.
I cannot comment on performance, reliability, or life comparisons but the more knowledgeable comments here seem to indicate that overall there may not be much difference.
I will likely never be able to afford an Omega (costing nearly as much as a small car) but I will never knock an organisation that contributes so much & has built such a reputation, if they can sell at the prices listed good for them, after all I never hear whispers that Rolex is going broke tho' the current economic climate may change things somewhat.
Thanks to Reno for starting this very interesting thread & to all who supplied such great pics.
Pete
:thanks Pete

I thought it would be interesting, both for "perceived quality" (not real quality) and for all the 'homages' discussions...
No scientific experience here, just feelings about things...

Well the thought provoking thing is when I put my Speedie near one of my Alphas, I can't possibly imagine one costs more than FIFTY times their price...
I remain cautious, though. My Alpha collection is only 1year old, and I will make my final statement in 5 years if they all keep running in good condition. :roll:
In the mean time, I'd expect my Omega to be in perfect condition too, for at least the same amount of time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: ALPHA(s) versus…

I think the quality is just as good as expensive watches!!!!
Even though swiss watches are finished alot better, then a chinese or japanese watch. They still only have the same 2 year waranty. And these days where most of the parts of an ETA watch are made in china, how can they say it's THAT much better?
I'm starting to regret buying alot of new Swiss watches, that have failed working within a year. They might be under warranty, but it takes forever. It's much easyier just to go buy a new chinese watch.
Chinese Watches have improved so much in the last few years, I think the Swiss might be in trouble
My thinking too. I've been amazed to read some posts on the Omega forum recently, about issues on coaxial movements, power reserve problems, hacking problems... and no one there seemed to be too crossed about that... :-x

Damn, on a 4000€ watch, don't you expect QC to be on top, no ? :-s

Isn't that what's always comes up about chinese watches, that their QC is soooooo bad ? (lucky me, 9 Alphas so far, and no QC issues ! I thought something went wrong with my PO, it seems it was only a winding problem !)(I don't say it will never happen, of course...) but come on, on a 4000€ watch ?

Some guys say : "It's a mechanical object, it's OK if it has problems sometimes" o_O
Sorry, but not at that price point.
What I can stand with a 60$ watch, I just can't when it comes to "swiss quality". What's the point of it, elsewhere ? :-s

Conclusion : What's the whole point of "quality" if it doesn't do better than what's considered crap (I certainly don't give it that name) ?
And I'm not talking about mechanical vs quartz, but outrageously expensive movements compared to cheapos...

Saying that, just being curious, Constellation90, what were the watches you're referring to ?
I'm starting to regret buying alot of new Swiss watches, that have failed working within a year. They might be under warranty, but it takes forever.
 
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