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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This little watch is without doubt drawn from life but quite an intersting timepeace with a unusual "extinct remontoir" mechanism. This movement wears clothes which was fashionable around 1870/80 and swiss hallmarks for silver are missing. Therefore I guess her age is around 135-145 and she is born in switzerland. She still runs proper:

Watch Pocket watch Fashion accessory Antique


The nickel finsh of the cocks and mainbridge is gone but by to refresh the make-up is a part of my to-do list. THe quality of the movement is good. All important parts of the lever movement jeweled (15) with a srew balance and a blue flad spiral. But the interesting part is hidden behind the dial:

Watch Pocket watch Watch accessory Analog watch Gear


A fully functional timeset mechanism beyond the springbarrel. The winding wheel is beyond the spring house on the other side. I didn't dismanteld this movement and own no pictures but a friend of mine owns a simular one and is also clueless about the orgin. A. Lehmann might be possible but only a option.

KInd regards Silke
 

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I've tried to look up the number on the dial side- 80282? But it isn't a patent number. Well, it is, but the Swiss patent CH 80282 was granted in 1919... and concerns fuel valves on engines. Or something like that. In German, Brennstoffventil an Verbrennungsmotoren.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
:) ..very important we've still some very creative inventions in this section o| but sorry I forget to discribe it as the movement number which is as well the case number. This was quite typical within this aera for good watches in switzerland.

Thanks Silke
 

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Ahhh...fuel valves and creative inventions...Volkswagen?
Since I've seen "patent" on dial, I expected some sort of patent number somewhere on the watch- that would make it all too easy to find out who made it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Interesting AslomRob,
I'd ignored this "feature" because its in general commun for cylinder escapements out of that aera and dialside plates in general for wheels you see on old keywinders quite often. You're right its unusual for this movement kind. Another point you can't see well on the pictures. The levercock and the cover of the barrel are not nickel covered bass as the rest. It's made out of a light gold colored stuff ..something like "yellow argentan". Sorry I've no real idea about this metal. It's not precious but don't oxidate easyly.

At the gallert movement the lever itself is down deep. Never seen such construct before.

Thanks for pointed this out
Silke
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Definetly never seen before :think:..good to know that this technic excist. Very interesting. I'll see if I find further hints in any direction when I'm take apart the movement on a free day.

ArtB please don't begin to collect scrap . I like to admire your wonderful watches.

Regards Silke
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Eri231,
easy for enrico :) ....I wish I'd the effortlessness.
Unfortnately my technical understanding is also limited. I just know the US Patent 56683 1866 (simular to UK3100 from 1864) and wasn't sure if it match here. IT discribes a clutch. Do you mean this Patent or do you've further informations.
I only know that Lehmann foundet the jurassiene d'horologerie but never find a discribtion what they've done ..own movements ..finishing or just trading with the know how. I only find a hint to a bronze Medal for horologere 1878 on the exhibition in Paris.

If you've further informations I'm keen on it
Kind regards Silke
 

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The correct name is Société Jurassienne d'Horlogerie. Online there is not much to find about it. I just found this:
Text Font Line Illustration
It was registered on November 3rd, 1880.
The above mentioned article on Watch-Wiki states that M. Charles Lehmann was founder of this company (https://watch-wiki.org/index.php?title=Diskussion:Kupplungsaufzug_nach_Lehmann). But it does not give the source of this piece of information.

Badener


 

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Charles Lehmann-Cunier was an inventor but it was not a shrewd businessman. because of not paying creditors (Austrian and Italian) in 1885, it closed in 1889, and inventories of stock sold with newspaper ads.

BTW 1870-1878 he was a deputy of the Grand Conseil bernois
Text Font Paper

Text Font Line Document Monochrome


regards enrico
 

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Hi Enrico,

I saw this one too. What I'm still missing is a source that says that M. Lehmann-Cunier from the Société Jurassienne is Charles Lehmann the inventor. Charles Lehmann was from Paris, not from Bienne (yes, he could have moved). Do you have a source?

Badener

Ah, maybe I just found the missing link in the chronicle of Bienne: http://www.bibliobiel.ch/download/bj/bj_bloesch.pdf
"1857...
...
19. Dezember. Charles Lehmann-Cunier von Bernburg wird als Bürger angenommen.
..."
Charles Lehmann-Cunier from Bernburg was accepted as a citizen of Bienne on December 19th 1857.
 

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on the "Bulletin des lois de la République française " (Bulletin of Acts of the French Republic) the patent application is filed by Mathieu of Paris. there is no a Swiss patent because there was no Swiss office for patents

"Bulletin des lois de la République française


Le brevet d'invention de quinze ans, dont la demande a été déposée, le 5 août i865, au secrétariat de la préfecture du département de la Seine, par le sieur Lehmann (Charles), fabricant d'horlogerie, représenté par le sieur Mathieu, à Paris "

regards enrico
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you a lot for this interesting input. A lot news about the Charles Lehman probably moved to bienne with less comercial sucess (or a double). I wasn't really sure about the Lehmann orgin because the watchwiki writer always found the name on the cases and the patent don't match proper because the time setting wasn't done by the crown. THerefore it was probably an early Lehmann but not verified. The typical "screwlift" would have been significantly. The remontoir was really a revolution triggert by Philippe and I'm quite sure not all commercial unsuccessful protagonists are known nowadays anymore.

But the next find provides the reference to Charles Lehmann. The dial is identical brandet and the style simular:

Pocket watch Watch Clock Disc brake


as well a 15 jewel lever movement with blue flatspiral and a srewbalance. The leverbridge is as unusal shaped around the balancepin as by the other one. Unfortunately its a single movement with broken balance but for me an interesting "storyteller" .

and here beyond the dial we find the "screwlift"

Watch Pocket watch Fashion accessory Metal


Thanks again enrico and badener :)

Silke
 
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