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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello! :)
I have an antique pocket watch that doesn't have a maker brand on it.
The second hand is at the 6-o-clock position. Inside the watch it does have
an engraved name, I believe it is Ningnrn? Don't know for sure. What
do you think? Who do you think is the maker of this watch. The name engraved
I believe is the person who put the watch together.


Thanks for any help with identifying this pocket watch.


Bornoregonian
 

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Looks like a Swiss fake to me.
 

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Why do you think it is a Railroad watch!

It does not look like it had a front cover. Strange.
 

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movement looks alot like a elgin model 2, so you might have a jobber watch.
No way it's an Elgin. Look at the hairspring stud.

I'm 99.9% sure it's a Swiss fake.
 

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Here is a quote from a thread at globalhorology.com.

Kathleen Pritchard's book "Swiss Timepiece Makers 1775-1975" lists Niagara as a trademark of Schwob Freres in La Chaux de Fonds, Switzerland in 1886 and 1892
The movement does look like a copy of an Elgin or Waltham movement of that time period.
 

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Savonette is the design where the crown is positioned at 3 o'clock.

Check out the thread " What is the oldest watch you have" on Public forum. Scarily similar dial design and watch, savonette without a protective lid for the crystal!
Hm, 2 in the same day!
 

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Savonette is the design where the crown is positioned at 3 o'clock.

Check out the thread " What is the oldest watch you have" on Public forum. Scarily similar dial design and watch, savonette without a protective lid for the crystal!
Hm, 2 in the same day!
American 18-size watches(and "imitation" American watches) are built to standard sizes and will interchange readily between cases.

Hunting cases were more expensive than open-faced cases when new, and scrapping and wear has not changed this over the years. Thus, it's not at all an uncommon arrangement to find at all.
 

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here's a little info on what i think the case might be

All cases marked "J. Boss" or "Jas. Boss" or having a balance (scale) as a trade mark (indicating that it is a J. Boss grade case) are gold-filled cases. The following chronology and information is from "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Lending Library), with additional notes in blue based upon an article in an 1889 issue of The Keystone, posted by Greg Frauenhoff, 30-Apr-04 and quotes in brown, based upon the online article "Decorative Aspects of American Horology," by Philip Poniz, on The Antiquorum Magaizine Website:

1853 - Randolf & Reese Peters were making cases in Philadelphia, employing James Boss.

1859 - J. Boss received a patent for "spinning up" cases made of "gold-filled" type material. That is, material made of a sheet of composition metal (usually brass) sandwiched between two thin sheets of gold. Boss formed cases by rolling sheet metal as opposed to the traditional method involving soldering and cutting. Rolling increased the molecule density of the metal. His patent, No. 23,820 of May 3, 1859, revolutionized the watch case industry by enabling the production of not only less expensive, but considerably stronger cases. ... Unlike gold washed cases, which were made using electroplating, cases produced by means of rolling had much harder gold surfaces and were thus less apt to wear.

1871 - J. Boss sold patent rights to John Stuckert of Philadelphia.

1875 - T.B. Hagstoz & Charles N. Thorpe formed Hagstoz & Thorpe, purchasing the manufacturing facilities (within which, 12 employees produced 6 cases per day at 618 Chesnut St.) and "J. Boss" patent from the estate of John Stuckert. Hagstoz & Thorpe seems to have made only gold-filled cases using the J. Boss patented method.

1876+ - ... orders increased so rapidly that larger quarters became necessary immediately. The landlord of their first premises, 618 Chestnut Street, was George W. Childs, ... When Childs' learned of his tenants' need for more work space, he offered $100,000 and became a silent third partner. A new plant on Brown Street was erected ...

1877 - E. Tracy, a manufacturer of solid gold and silver watch cases, was acquired.

1880 - the company moved to a six story building on Nineteenth St., with an equal-size annex on Wylie St.

1883 - 1885 - T.B Hagstoz withdrew from the company which became C.N. Thorpe Co. and shortly thereafter it was reorganized as the Keystone Watch Case Co.

1887 - the Nineteenth St. building was almost doubled in size and a four story adjacent building was occupied by Keystone.

1889 - the firm was producing 1,500 cases per day.

Keystone then went on to absorb other case companies (and several watch companies). For example, Jerry Treiman reported in a message board thread (about a watch made by the U.S. Watch Co.) that "... the history provided in legal documents for the anti-trust case against Keystone ... states that all of the capital stock of a newly organized Philadelphia Watch Case Co. (August 1900) was owned by Keystone." Thus, Keystone become one of the largest case manufacturers in the country. The combined company built a large factory in Riverside, NJ in 1907. Keystone stayed in business another 80+ years.

"J. Boss" or"Jas. Boss" cases are gold-filled, guaranteed for 15 (maybe), 20 or 25 years. A 1907 Keystone Ad shows their balance (scale) & crown trade mark used on their 25-year Jas. Boss (J. Boss) cases, and the plain balance trade mark identifying their 20-year J. Boss cases.
 
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