[Monkey_like_watch]

Hello all,

There have been a few posts recently showing Seagull 1963 watches.
You must understand that these "Seagull 1963" were not made by the Tianjin Seagull Factory in Tianjin.
They are reproductions made in Guangdong.
I have spoken to an AD of Tianjin Seagull watches about this issue, and he is the one who confirmed these watches were not made at Tianjin Seagull Factory.

How do you know you have a real Tianjin Seagull Factory Seagull 1963 304 watch:

1. The authentic Seagull 1963 304 will come in a Seagull zippered case with an extra NATO strap, and a Seagull instruction booklet.

2. An authentic Tianjin Seagull watch will have "Seagull" on the case back.

3.. The watch will come with a QR code sticker on the case back to authenticate the watch on Seagull's official Wechat store on the Wechat app. This is the most important thing!
(This is not true for the first limited edition Tianjin Seagull Factory Sea-gull 1963 304's as they were produced before June 2017, but I have examples of what those watches look like linked below. These are for reference for anyone buying a used limited edition.)

If your Sea-gull 1963 doesn't come with a QR code on the back then it is a not an authentic Tianjin Seagull watch. Or you can call it a replica or reproduction watch.
But...don't expect the watch to have the QC or build quality of an authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory watch.

I will not post photos of the Guangdong version. There are many photos of those watches out there to view. The most obvious difference are the case backs. An authentic Sea-gull will have Sea-gull written on the case back.

Here are photos of authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory Seagull 1963 304 watches(2018 limited edition version)
If your watch doesn't look like this then it didn't come from Tianjin Seagull Factory. It is a replica.

The Sea-gull zippered case, NATO strap and instruction booklet for the authentic version:

The authenticating QR code:

The dial of an authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory 304 limited edition:

The case back of an authentic Tianjin Seagull 1963(2018 version) The other versions from Sea-gull will also have Sea-gull on the back and a limited edition number (see the links below):

Another version of an authentic Tianjin Seagull 1963 304. Notice the case back with the Sea-gull name and limited edition number:
Limited Edition Seagull D304 Chronograph Reissue ? East Watch Review

and another authentic Tianjin Seagull that was sold on WUS forum. Again, notice the case back with the name Sea-gull, the limited edition number and the zippered case (which is similar to the 2018 case):
https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/seag...tch-limited-edition-1963-reissue-3521618.html

I hope this will help everyone in their quest for an authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory watch.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

On a final note:
I am not here to question the QC or build quality of these non-Seagull watches; I just want to educate the public on my research.
Although if you read other threads you will see that members have experienced QC issues and misinformation with the reproduction/replica versions.

 

[Sergei T.]

From what I know and seen on the internet those are the editions I'm aware of:

1. Sea-Gull early edition of 1963 chronograph - found on EOL Outlet (Kevin)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Chi...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.281.48ef3c00XroGWi

2. Sea-Gull 38 & 42mm late edition
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

3. HKED - Ed's edition - ED63 (non Sea-Gull)
https://www.hkedwatches.com/

4. The latest edition from Sea-Gull -
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.6.56aa13129Pee7k

In my private opinion three first might be without QRCode (HKED edition for sure since it was not related to Sea-Gull production) which means could be easily 'faked' so should be bought from AD/Official Store or directly from the owner - HKED ;-)

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

2. Sea-Gull 38 & 42mm late edition
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

Thanks for the research Sergei.

Your #2 is the HK version by Thomas as stated by Chascomm in another thread.
These don't appear to be the Tianjin Seagull watches, but watches made for Seagull Hong Kong possibly by another factory as they don't say Sea-gull on the watches.

The most obvious difference between the versions is the small hands on the watches.
The two Tianjin Seagull Factory watches have different small hands than the other examples you have shown.
I am just stating this for reference.

My OP was only about authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory made 304's and not the different variations, but thanks again for the post and showing the different variations so that others can see the differences.

 

[mythless]

I kind of wish they would remake/reproduce another re-issue of the D304, I really like the dauphine hands.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

I kind of wish they would remake/reproduce another re-issue of the D304, I really like the dauphine hands.

I agree. I am a big fan of dauphine hands.

Speaking of 1963 and dauphine hands. I just recently acquired a 1963 Omega Constellation 168.001 "Jumbo" (37mm) with dauphine hands.

I know it isn't a CMW, but it was an Omega made for the Asian market. I will add an "Off Topic" tag just to be safe.

 

[mythless]

Nice looking Omega!

Getting back on topic: I would highly recommend any 1963 variants directly off HKED. I know he did say he does test them before he ships them out to make sure they are working properly. Plus, they are not as expensive as genuine Seagull but, I am sure HKED's quality is just as equal.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

Ok, this is interesting. I have been searching old threads and came across a thread started by Ron, AlbertTime.
The thread can be read in full here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/albe...h-clock-collectors-private-museum-861261.html

These watches are in the private Tianjin Watch and Clock Museum.

From the thread I have found out that these are what WUS member gigfy is calling the "Modern 1963 re-issue and Tianjin Sea-Gull D304 re-issue". In post #16.

These are the originals made in the early 1960's:

Most notable on the Modern 1963 example in the museum is the different indices from the HK version(which has "cut out" indices centers).
Seen here:
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

Also, although the HK version has similar dial arrangement with small hand on the left and big hand on the right, it looks different than the other 1963's that have it popped up with the small hands flipped.
As seen here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/cool-strap-option-seagull-1963-a-4867265.html

 

[Victorv]

Hello Monkey like Watch

What do you think about this Seagull?

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

[Temujin]

So I found these two on TaoBao:

First one seems to be the original limited edition for around $440, and second one is one of the replica ones with identical spec, but for around $150.
Curious, is there any real difference between them?

Replica seems to say that they are using an updated ST1901 movement, not sure what was updated about it (google translate is not perfect unfortunately).

Original link
Replica link

 

[Temujin]

Also, all the replica listings actually state that they are replicas. Seems Taobao doesn't allow to sell them as authentic Seagull ones (good to know platform has developed since last time I used it years ago). Seagull listings state "reissue"

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

Hello Monkey like Watch

What do you think about this Seagull?

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

Hello Victor,

It looks good, I like the NATO strap. Did it come with that strap? Where did you score the watch?

That might have a Seagull movement, but it isn't a Tianjin Seagull watch. I have seen this version before, and it looks just like the WatchUnique version.

These are verily the same watch that was created by Thomas in HK, and most likely made at the factory in Shenzhen with the Seagull ST19 movement. (I am merely speculating)

WatchUnique states their 1963 comes in a tin but this one looks like it comes in a different display box. I have seen a similar display box from a Taobao seller in HK too.
Here is a link to WatchUnique's 1963.
https://www.watchunique.com/featured/seagull-1963-display.html

I wish they would call these watches: Tianjin 304, or even Prototype 304. The use of the name Seagull just confuses the buyer These watches were made between 1963-1966 when the company was called Tianjin Watch Factory; the name didn't change to Seagull until 1974.

I think Tianjin 304 or Prototype 304 sounds like a pretty cool name.
What do you think?

 

[Victorv]

Hello Victor,

It looks good, I like the NATO strap. Did it come with that strap? Where did you score the watch?

That might have a Seagull movement, but it isn't a Tianjin Seagull watch. I have seen this version before, and it looks just like the WatchUnique version.

These are verily the same watch that was created by Thomas in HK, and most likely made at the factory in Shenzhen with the Seagull ST19 movement. (I am merely speculating)

WatchUnique states their 1963 comes in a tin but this one looks like it comes in a different display box. I have seen a similar display box from a Taobao seller in HK too.
Here is a link to WatchUnique's 1963.
https://www.watchunique.com/featured/seagull-1963-display.html

I wish they would call these watches: Tianjin 304, or even Prototype 304. The use of the name Seagull just confuses the buyer These watches were made between 1963-1966 when the company was called Tianjin Watch Factory; the name didn't change to Seagull until 1974.

I think Tianjin 304 or Prototype 304 sounds like a pretty cool name.
What do you think?

Hello Monkey like watch

First of all thanks for your opinion, the watch came with that NATO strap, and i buy the watch aroud two years ago from a guy here in Spain, the watch was second hand, so i don't know where the watch was sold at first.

I don't know who is Thomas from HK haha, he mounted non original Seagull 1963?

So, in your opinion i have a not original Seagull 1963? Nearly the same as the watches that are made in Tianjin, but with parts made in other factories independents from Seagull?

Sorry for my English

Bests

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

[aeroman5]

Thanks for this. I had assumed the watch on watchunique.com was the 'real' Seagull as it had the 2 lines of Chinese text which said Tianjin Watch Factory. It's good to finally find where to buy the 'original' version of this. It appears most of the reviewers don't have the 'real' Seagull version though. I wonder if it is really worth the difference in price, nearly US $300.

I wonder why Seagull don't try and make this more available to the Western market, as it's much easier to find the 'non-original' version online than the actual Seagull.

 

[redcow]

This is my watchunique version from about 7 or 8 years ago. Never a problem and runs flawlessly. I opted for the solid case back because I feel it is more faithful to the original. Given the variety of versions and that they all seem to
use the same movement, I'd suggest that prospective buyers choose the version that most appeals to them visually and stop obsessing about "originality."

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

I wonder why Seagull don't try and make this more available to the Western market, as it's much easier to find the 'non-original' version online than the actual Seagull.

It seems as though Sea-Gull does well for themselves just selling to the Chinese market. With over 1.4 billion people, it isn't hard to find buyers for your watches.

You could say the same for Fiyta-Beijing Watch Factory, Peacock, Shanghai Watch Factory, Tian Wang, and other Chinese mainland watchmakers; they all seem to do well just selling to the mainland.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

...they all seem to use the same movement, I'd suggest that prospective buyers choose the version that most appeals to them visually and stop obsessing about "originality."

EDIT: These watches don't use the same movement. Some are using the ST19, while others are using the ST19 with a functioning swan neck regulator.

First, I don't think anyone here is "obsessing about originality". Perhaps you are new to f72, and you haven't seen other recent threads that have brought to light that there some online dealers that are selling questionable Sea-Gull watches.
As noted in a recent thread about the fake Sea-Gull green military watch sold by a well-known online dealer out of Shanghai.
For a true collector of a watch brand, originality is key. Yes or no?

Although I respect your opinion, it doesn't take away from the fact that online shops are using the name Seagull to sell these watches.
The fact is that the original Prototype 304's were actually made by Tianjin Watch Factory, and do not have anything to with Seagull except for the movement. So why call them Seagull 1963? Why not call them Prototype 304 or Tianjin 1963, which they are?
This would be like Paris making a watch called the Seiko 1985. Would that not cause confusion? (I am just using Parnis and Seiko as an example.)

Seeing as Sea-gull is the name of a well known Chinese watch brand and a well known movement then this can cause confusion to the uneducated buyer.

On a final note, I am the one who started this thread, and I will be buying an HKED ED63 version of the Tianjin 1963/Prototype 304 with an ST19 swan neck.
People WILL buy what they want, but my desire is to educate WUS members and prospective buyers.

 

[Temujin]

So, if I decide to buy this watch from taobao that says 21 zuan and is 38mm with acrylic crystal, it's a replica made by another factory, with the ST21 inferior movement, and might have questionable quality control? That watch is about $110 cheaper than what I see on HKED's website, trying to figure out if extra cash is worth spending. If the movement is much better, and his quality control is better too, which should lead to a watch that live work for longer, it might be.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

So, if I decide to buy this watch from taobao that says 21 zuan and is 38mm with acrylic crystal, it's a replica made by another factory, with the ST21 inferior movement, and might have questionable quality control? That watch is about $110 cheaper than what I see on HKED's website, trying to figure out if extra cash is worth spending. If the movement is much better, and his quality control is better too, which should lead to a watch that live work for longer, it might be.

I wouldn't call the movements inferior; it is just different than HKED's ST19.
HKED's watches come with a one year warranty. Does the Taobao seller's watch come with a warranty?
I would message the Taobao seller and ask them questions about the product and the warranty offered.

Here is what I have learned since starting this thread:

The watches sold on Taobao and other international websites are "authentic" watches in the sense that they are all replicas of the Prototype 304/ Tianjin Watch Factory 1st Aviation chronograph watch from the 1960's.
(but these watches are built to different specs with different movements-some have panda dials, some have cream colored or black or green or blue dials, some have silver hands, some have gold hands, some have silver indices some have gold, some are 38mm some are above 40mm, some have ST19 movements, some have modified ST19 movements, but all the movements are Seagull movements.)

The Tianjin Seagull Watch Group has made two "limited edition" versions of the Prototype 304/Tianjin Watch Factory 1st Aviation chronograph from the 1960's that have the name SEA-GULL on the watch case back.

The point of this thread was to educate members/buyers of the difference.

I will repeat myself again, I personally don't agree with international online stores calling their watch the "Seagull 1963" because that is misleading to the buyer even though the watch doesn't say Seagull the websites are calling it Seagull 1963. Not cool!

On a final note, HKED calls his watch the HKED ED63, I have great respect for HKED for not jumping on the "Seagull 1963" bandwagon.

 

[Chascomm]

Just to be clear, the ST21 movement is a clone of the ETA 2824-2 design; an automatic non-chronograph. The ST19 is a hand-winding chronograph. They are in no way interchangeable.

Regarding the 1963 style watch; whether the dial shows a jewel count of 19 or 21 jewels, the movement is the same ST19 with the same number of jewels.