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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, I have decided it would be nice to have an auto winder for my newly working Seiko 6139-6005. I'd love to be able to take it off my dresser and throw it on my wrist without having to set it every time I decide to wear it and look classy. I am looking at single watch winders on Amazon/Ebay and don't want to spend a ton on one that will actually do the job.... I have found a few in the $20-60 range, but some of them do not list Seiko in their 'compatibility' lists, or even specifically say outright 'not for Seiko kinetic watches'. I am wondering why? I would have thought that any winder that keeps the watch turning or moving semi regularly, to keep that weight in the watch busy, that it should work? Is there a certain style, or type that I should be looking at? Is it based on the direction and orientation the winder moves in, the speed, or what?

Educate me! Please, and thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Long story short, Seiko kinetic watches are not built the same as a regular automatic watches and as such require special chargers to keep wound.


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Definitely. I am getting that for sure. What I am wondering, is what is special, about the special kinetic winders? I'm handy and clever and electronically and mechanically skilled..... I might even be able to BUILD something cheaply as a fun project that would work, if I knew what the qualifiers for 'what would work' actually were.... Even barring a potentially fun build project, I'm just wondering what I need from a mechanically moving standpoint to wind this thing properly if I'm looking at a pre-made auto-winder. Any advice as to styles, or types, or range of motion?

Thanks.
 

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A Seiko Kinetic uses a rotor to power a small charger to recharge a battery. The threshold for movement is a lot higher to deliver power to the battery versus incrementally winding a small spring with a ratchet.


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Discussion Starter #5
A Seiko Kinetic uses a rotor to power a small charger to recharge a battery. The threshold for movement is a lot higher to deliver power to the battery versus incrementally winding a small spring with a ratchet.


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So what I have isn't even a Seiko Kinetic then....its just considered a Seiko chronograph? And any winder will do?
 

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Yeah nobody is being particularly clear about it but your 6139 is an automatic, with the rotor/counter weight. I can't tell you exactly how a winder works or on how many axes it moves, as I don't have one but common sense would suggest that a standard winder will work for your 6139 as the automatic system is the same on all of Seiko's automatic (not kinetic) watches. As to building one I'd be interested in seeing the finished product. I'm planning on making a walnut case for my watches so a walnut winder would be appropriate.
 

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Seiko Kinetics are not automatic watches, like your 6139. They are unique (somehow) and don't work on a normal winder.

Your 6139 will work on a winder. Most winders have various setting, both for direction (CW, CCW, both) and number of turns (shown as TPD). The 6139 will wind in either direction so you don't really need to worry about the direction. I don't know the TPD, so start at the lowest setting and see if it runs down eventually. If it does, then go up to the next highest, and so on. Doing this will reduce wear on the clutch and no sense running it extra since you're just adding unnecessary wear.

Speaking of which, I normally wouldn't put a 45 year old watch on a winder. It's already had a long life and no point adding to the wear. But if any watch could take it, I'd say the Seiko would handle it pretty well.
 

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Seiko Kinetics are quartz movement watches that use a rotor to spin up a tiny generator to charge up a battery or capacitor. There's a huge amount of gearing in the mechanism so that the generator spins fast enough to generate a charge. Even with the gear reduction, the speed that a normal watch winder spins is not enough to charge the power cell, typically it needs the quick change in direction of the hand swinging to get the rotor moving fast enough. You could probably build a winder to charge a Kinetic (it would probably need a fast oscillating movement opposed to a slow rotation). In the case of the Kinetic, the electromotive force generated is proportional to the change in magnetic flux. This is unlike the spring inside a mechanical watch where the amount of winding is directly and linearly proportional to the number of rotations (not the speed).

Regardless, your watch, and most all over automatic mechanical watches, can be would with any off the shelf winder.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a winder. When you want to wear it, shake it around a little, set the date and time, then just wear it. Odds are good your watch won't keep perfect time, so it could be several minutes off by the time you wear it, plus you'll have to set the date every 2 months anyway.
 

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Kinetic is a trademark or something SEIKO uses, don't confuse it with its actual meaning. Kinetic in this context signifies the quartz movements that are powered by an oscillating weight, just like the mechanical automatic movements, like the 6139. However, kinetics seem to require a higher impulse to the rotor to get it spinning, other than just gravity. This is true to automatics as well, just not as significantly. Thus, watch winders are garbage no matter how you look at it. Spending money on a device that wears (out) your watch? No thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I was actually kicking around the idea of using this motor as a prototype/proof of concept. Its pretty slow, its from an old erector set from the 50's. I screwed a small dogfood can to the gear drive on it, slightly off center, so it wobbles as it turns. I was thinking I can attach the bracelet around the dog food can after I glue on some gripping foam or add some tape or something so it doesn't slip around. It's roughly wrist sized.

winder motor 1.jpg

Here you can see a couple of the different gears it has for different speeds.

winder motor 2.jpg

What do ya think?


Edit: I just tested this, and it seems to work really well functionally and conceptually speaking. In its current state of test engineering, its ugly as sin, and the motor is very noisy. I could probably make a nice wood box for this, and do some rubber/foam mounts for the motor to cut down on noise and vibration.....
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Doing this will reduce wear on the clutch and no sense running it extra since you're just adding unnecessary wear.

Speaking of which, I normally wouldn't put a 45 year old watch on a winder. It's already had a long life and no point adding to the wear. But if any watch could take it, I'd say the Seiko would handle it pretty well.
I never even thought about whether or not I should do it....I was just thinking of the convenience of slipping on a perfectly set watch...... Interesting points.
 

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I was actually kicking around the idea of using this motor as a prototype/proof of concept. Its pretty slow, its from an old erector set from the 50's. I screwed a small dogfood can to the gear drive on it, slightly off center, so it wobbles as it turns. I was thinking I can attach the bracelet around the dog food can after I glue on some gripping foam or add some tape or something so it doesn't slip around. It's roughly wrist sized.

View attachment 13025993

Here you can see a couple of the different gears it has for different speeds.

View attachment 13025999

What do ya think?


Edit: I just tested this, and it seems to work really well functionally and conceptually speaking. In its current state of test engineering, its ugly as sin, and the motor is very noisy. I could probably make a nice wood box for this, and do some rubber/foam mounts for the motor to cut down on noise and vibration.....
Looks like a good way to magnetize your watch. Mechanical watches and magnets don't usually play well together.

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Discussion Starter #16
Looks like a good way to magnetize your watch. Mechanical watches and magnets don't usually play well together.

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Huh, never even thought of that.....I guess I could see it creating a problem though, from an engineering standpoint.....now that you mention it.

I have a 6309 in mine now pre Timegrapher checking

It's inside a pocket cut into a block of foam.

View attachment 13027819
Huh, that's pretty interesting.....Good idea.
 

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Huh, never even thought of that.....I guess I could see it creating a problem though, from an engineering standpoint.....now that you mention it.
Just something to be aware of. Please continue with your work because I enjoy your creativity and fearlessness. Are you going to "dress up" the winder in a case? You could probably shield the motor somehow within that and isolate it from the watch.

How are you controlling it? Are you building the controller? The Orbita database may come in handy in setting winding directions and TPD, especially if you're planning to use this for other watches in the future.

Orbita - Watch Database
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Well, I'm definitely fearless, though I haven't posted a whole lot of creativity yet. The thought had crossed my mind, to build a nice little oak or pine box with some stain and varnish, with a nice plexi-glass front that opens up with the rotating part extended inside with the motor hidden, and just run a toggle switch on the main power cord for basic on/off control. I was also planning on maybe using a simple electrical light timer switch, to cycle it on/off automatically, so that it doesn't run all the time. Maybe an hour on 2 hours off kinda deal.... I have a couple of these really simple timer switches laying around:

14440330.jpg
 

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Buy more watches rotate often. Setting watches becomes more fun and you spend more time admiring the watch of the day.

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not sure if its been mentioned but the orientation of the watch winder also matters sometimes. i have a watch winder were my 6139 is slanted and my watch stopped. then i put a pice of wood so the watch orientation is almost vertical and its fine. i think the rotor was not getting a full wind thsts why it stopped.
 
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