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Hey guys!
I´m pretty new here and to the watch collecting thing. I recently bought a vintage Baume & mercier watch that i tought lseemed to be in very good condition for the age and price. Here is some pictures:



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Here is the details the seller provided me with:

mechanic movement with 15 jewels
Swiss made
metal chrome case
Case without crown 37 mm, lug to lug 45
Black dial with arabic luminous numbers and white hands
from around 1953

anyone who kows more about this watch? I would really like to know some more, is it a military? is it a limited edition?'

thankful for all inputs on this!

thanks in advance! /sebastian
 

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Without the watch in hand it is difficult to make definitive statements... but since when does that stop most of us??

The watch is in very good condition for it's age (probably 60-70 years old) in part because the dial is probably new and not original. That is also why it went for a sub-normal price for a B&M.

I assume the lume has a good glow to it - never a good sign on vintage.

The main collectible factor on this watch is it's movement. But this is a movement house supplied movement so I suspect it is not rare.

I hope this is not too much of a disappointment. One learns over time.

But I am sure the watch is a good wear and will impress most.
 

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The movement is an Adolf Schild Cal. AS 1130 ("Wehrmachtskaliber") derivative:

bidfun-db AS_1130: AS 1130

I must say that I would not consider the movement to be in particularly good condition, even taking its age into account - slight rusting here and there by the looks of it. Maybe that's why it went a little cheaper. Baume & Mercier never made their own movements AFAIK, they merely upgraded the better generic movements.

Hartmut Richter
 

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Without the watch in hand it is difficult to make definitive statements... but since when does that stop most of us??

The watch is in very good condition for it's age (probably 60-70 years old) in part because the dial is probably new and not original. That is also why it went for a sub-normal price for a B&M.

I assume the lume has a good glow to it - never a good sign on vintage.

The main collectible factor on this watch is it's movement. But this is a movement house supplied movement so I suspect it is not rare.

I hope this is not too much of a disappointment. One learns over time.

But I am sure the watch is a good wear and will impress most.

Thanks a lot! highly appreciated! The seller claimed taht all parts of the watch was original and that the dial is the original one, but who knows :)

The movement is an Adolf Schild Cal. AS 1130 ("Wehrmachtskaliber") derivative:

bidfun-db AS_1130: AS 1130

I must say that I would not consider the movement to be in particularly good condition, even taking its age into account - slight rusting here and there by the looks of it. Maybe that's why it went a little cheaper. Baume & Mercier never made their own movements AFAIK, they merely upgraded the better generic movements.

Hartmut Richter
thanks! yes there is some small rust dots on it but it is running perfectly well, i had a hard time find any inof aobut this but u got the movement right immediately , damn there are some really nice people in here! You are really good at what you do so thanks for sharing!

Any other opinions on this watch? did i overpay at 265 USD?
 

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Thanks a lot! highly appreciated! The seller claimed taht all parts of the watch was original and that the dial is the original one, but who knows :)



thanks! yes there is some small rust dots on it but it is running perfectly well, i had a hard time find any inof aobut this but u got the movement right immediately , damn there are some really nice people in here! You are really good at what you do so thanks for sharing!

Any other opinions on this watch? did i overpay at 265 USD?
Unfortunately, you over paid for this watch. I have done that once or twice myself. You will learn how to spot these things more easily the longer you collect. If the watch runs well and you enjoy it, than I wouldn't dwell on having over paid.
 

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Unfortunately, you over paid for this watch. I have done that once or twice myself. You will learn how to spot these things more easily the longer you collect. If the watch runs well and you enjoy it, than I wouldn't dwell on having over paid.
thanks a lot for your input! am i far away from a price worth to pay? just curious (not considering the "wear" factor ) :)
 

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Hi Coldforce,

sorry, the bad message first: You payed 265 bucks too much. It is a
typical Mumbai watch: Rusty movement, corroded case, painted hands
(to cover rust), repainted dial. These dials are usually fairly made, but as
usual far from original. These people simply print what sells best: Thus always
black, by preference military style, and with the same pattern for all brands.

But there is also a good message: Learning the hard way is almost never free
of charge. And if you are lucky the watch is still suitable for daily use.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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thanks a lot for your input! am i far away from a price worth to pay? just curious (not considering the "wear" factor ) :)
Unfortunately, as Herr Ranfft has stated you have overpaid by the amount spent on the watch. You have learned one of the most important points when buying vintage. Before placing a bid you must do your research, always visit the forum here and post questions if you have doubts. Second. you must buy the seller before the watch. There are three or four countries I tend to stay away from when buying vintage watches. The Ukraine, Bulgaria, India, and China have the largest sellers with frankenwatches from my experience. While this may not be true it has been in my experience. There are quite a few posts in the forum here dealing with buying vintage. I would suggest giving those a read if you haven't already.
 

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Thanks a lot guys! I guess you got to learn the hard way :) im very thankful for your inputs on this tho, i will be more careful next time....

are you sure it is fake? or could it be legit? here is the ebay auction link: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

please if u can tell me 100% that it is fake, do that! otherwise perhaps i could keep a little hope alive hehehe

thanks in advance!

Unfortunately, as Herr Ranfft has stated you have overpaid by the amount spent on the watch. You have learned one of the most important points when buying vintage. Before placing a bid you must do your research, always visit the forum here and post questions if you have doubts. Second. you must buy the seller before the watch. There are three or four countries I tend to stay away from when buying vintage watches. The Ukraine, Bulgaria, India, and China have the largest sellers with frankenwatches from my experience. While this may not be true it has been in my experience. There are quite a few posts in the forum here dealing with buying vintage. I would suggest giving those a read if you haven't already.
 

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Fake isn't quite the right word. Cobbled together, possibly, making it a Frankenwatch, or perhaps someone just repainted the hands and dial. The movement may or may not be alright, that would be the major concern. I would get it serviced or checked out right away, don't start using it, as there could be corrosion issues inside. Perhaps a good clean and lube is all it needs. What it isn't, is 100% original untouched.
 

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Hi Coldforce,

first of all, very probably all parts of the watch belong together. But let me
tell what's happening to a watch which spends its best days in a hot and
humid climate on the sweaty wrist of its owner:

Firstly the dial will corrode, because almost everything passes the
protective coating by diffusion. Next the case will corrode more (if chrome)
or less rapdily (if stainless steel). The last to corrode are the steel parts of
the movement. Believe it or not: steel with a clean surface doesn't rust
easily, especially if sufficiently protected by a case.

So the typical way to handle these problems e.g. in India is to polish the
case a bit, and to repaint the dial with the cheapest and best selling
pattern (black, military style though). Restoring the dial to its original
shape is too expensive - even in India.

Of course in India (or equivalent regions) people know, what happens to
watches, and would not buy such an item. But in America and Europe there
are enough innocent collectors and enthousiasts, who pay enough to
rectify the cheap redails and probably the composition of anyhow
functioning watches from usable parts taken from several watches.

If you like the dial design and the painted hands, and if the watch is
reasonably running, it has some value as daily wearer. But the collectors
value was destroyed. It is much cheaper to buy a similar watch in
absolutely mint condition, than to restore this one to near original
appearance. And that'S the reason why I wrote that you payed 265 bucks
too much.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 

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It cost me $169 to learn this lesson, and while not quite as costly - I have a watch I can't bring myself to wear or sell on.

I have not made a mistake like that again - and I have probably bought 60+ watches since. Some lessons are most effectively learnt the hard way :-(

It is a great hobby, don't let this put you off :-!
 

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Hi nadered,

typical watch from hot humid climate. Rusty movement, terrible redial. Mumbai painters do usually better: The print even covers the raised numerals. And don't expect high value from the gold case. These oil-can met the demand after much watch for few bucks after WWII. Thin as paper they need the inner metal back and a solid brass ring inside, not to crash down when wound.

Better leave it to someone else. This type of Landeron movement was made some 3.5 million times, and there are many better samples left over. And moreover there is no reason to pay any buck for the brand. Even very reputable manufacturers bought these watches ready to sell, just to fill a gap in their collection.

Regard, Roland Ranfft
 

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thanks for your response! excuse my ignorance, so the watch is authentic B&M? are the hands original? and what is a Landeron movement? thx
 

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Hi. I don't know enough to comment on originality. But what he is saying is that the watch is in poor condition. Landeron were movement makers who specialised in chronograph movements - they made millions of them and they can be found in many different brands of watch. So you can get a watch which was just as good originally - and is in better condition now - for a lot less if you don't want such a famous name on the dial. Here are some movements on Dr Ranfft's website - put Landeron in the search box to see details. bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements
 

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Hi nadered,

thanks for your response! excuse my ignorance, so the watch is authentic B&M? are the hands original? and what is a Landeron movement? thx
I wouldn't mind whether it went through the hands of Baume & Mercier. Even if original it wasn't made by B&M - just sold. And disregarding authenticy, it is a poorly repainted cadaver: Rusty movement, regulator indicating dubious condition of the balance, hands manually painted white, dial print overlapping the numerals, and the brightest part of the movement is the signed bridge, leaving the suspicion that it is the only part of the original movement. And this is only what's visible from some blurry photos - no idea how disappointing the reality is.

No idea about the allegory in English - in Germany we say it passed a sales shower.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
 
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