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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Comrades!

:rodekaart


We have been discussing the possibility of Chinese cases in Russian watches but nowadays even Chinese movements are starting to appear in (seemingly) Russian watches!

The other day I was browsing the auctions of a seller in Moscow who has a number of alleged new Poljot watches with ΠΟΛΕΤ on the dial. Some of them were in PVD cases; all had with Poljot logo on the crown and Cyrillic marked backs with ΠΟΛΕΤ. They were in a couple of different Aviator or B-Uhr dial style in large quantities. They were claimed to contain a Poljot 2614 movement but there is no movement photo. However, someone had left negative input claming the watches were chinese fakes and a link to the following photo. A dew days later that input had been removed; it seems input with links is forbidden by bay rules…, but I had downloaded it and I attach it. The movement in the photo is marked 17 zuan which means 17 jewels in Chinese. It is common for the word zuan to appear in Latin letters in Chinese watches to denote jewels. The references to the Poljot movement in the item descriptions were also removed by the seller but the watches are still claimed to be brand new Poljot. The seller is moswatch2010. There is another seller from Moscow who sells apparently identical watches, alex1076597(claims mechanism 2614, no movement photos); there may be others…He has photos of a document (certificate or manual?) in his auctions where the watch is referred to as a Poljet… Apparently they have forgotten how to spell in Marksistskaya Street… Or perhaps POLJET is a new daughter company ! After all, pol-JET is flight-theemed as well b-)

Then again who knows... perhaps this time the movement is Chinese but the case is Russian? b-) :-d
Comrades, these are the facts. You draw your own conclusions.
 

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I like everyone else wouldnt want to spend good money on an 'fake' trying to pass itself off as something else.

While such a mix would have been unheard of during the Soviet days (ie Chinese movement) it is a fact that the communist system collapsed almost 20 years ago and there are some Russian capitalists who'd source cheaper parts to increase profits.

I dislike this practise, but then i am a lousy capitalist who is skeptical of the supposed 'freedoms' of the free market and the ensuing loss of jobs overseas, low wages, underemployment and race to the bottom etc, but that is another issue.

I find it hard to cast stones at these guys. They're only doing what our compatriots and governments have been doing for years.

Marc
Sydney, Australia
 

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Comarede OKEAH,

Thank you cordially to warn the forum against the fake watch(es), actually I don't object to the Chinese movements, but I do object to the items "russian-to-be" in which no parts have been manufactured in Russia. And I find it helpful to declare the names of ebay sellers who try to falsify buyers in the forum so that every member can stay away from the fake items in the future. It seems weird to see when I took a look at the feedback of that ebay seller, there are three hundred or more happy users who left positive feedbacks.:-s
 

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Oh yes, we've already noticed that s...t on Polish forums too. It's hard to believe, yet... the Chineese have finally realised that Volmax is geting popular and money can be made. how sad :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
... the Chineese have finally realised that Volmax is geting popular and money can be made. how sad :(
Comrade pmwas, I am do not know who it was that went to Chinese factories and ordered the components. It could be a Russian. The sellers in Moscow know what they are selling, they are responsible too.
 

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First of all the movement is marked ZSH, which means it was made by the Shanghai Watch Factory, of the Chinese Standard Movement design. In itself it is not a bad movement at all and can be very competent in its function but claiming the watch to be powered by a Poljot 2614 is pure deception. Come to think of it, even if the movement were a much higher grade unit, as long as it is not what it's claimed to be, then it is still deception pure and simple.

I suppose the problem is due to the fact that the Poljot brand name is now treated as "public domain", and nobody was around to enforce its ownership, as anyone and his dog can put together Poljot-branded watches for sale without let or hindrance. Besides there is no positive proof that these suspicious pieces are made in China either.

This is a reason why I tend to be suspicious of Poljot-branded, newer watches, because I just cannot tell who was behind them. While Russian watches is seen to be fashionable - and getting recognition these days, a significant proportion of people interested in them would indeed be interested in them without doing the homework, and that is a large enough market to exploit without having to worry about those who know better, a small minority indeed.
 

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By the way, for those interested in collecting branding variants: CSM-powered Sekondas turn up not infrequently on the used market, and they appear to be original too. I suspect they were made as an interim measure after Sekonda stopped sourcing watches from Russia, and before they finalized on the new suppliers.
 

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There's still a lot of demand for NOS Poljot watches, and since the actual supply of them has to be running out by now, I'm sure some Russian profiteer thought, "why not cut a deal with a Chinese company to make me some Poljot watches?" I'm sure he figured that by the time someone realized they had been sold a Chinese counterfeit, he'd be long gone and on to his next scam.

I've seen several suspicious 'Poljot' watches for sale online, including some of Juri Levenberg's. But at least those actually had Poljot movements in them. This is the first blatant Chinese counterfeit Poljot I've seen.
 

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My assessment, based on the photos:

- Fake? Yes! (although see my comments below)

- Chinese movement? Yes!

- Chinese fake? Probably not.


The quality of the caseback inscription appears to match that of authentic Poljot items. The limited edition number is laser etched, but this is consistent with genuine Poljots. I'd like to see what the finishing on the front of the case looks like, however this looks like it could be from a batch of authentic Poljot cases.

The Shanghai ZSH movement is not current production, judging by the shockproofing device. This is an old stock movement.

Looking at the examples in the thread that Michele linked to, I am more inclined to think that this is a Russian fake of a Russian watch made with a Chinese movement and Russian case. Where did the case come from? Possibly the break up of Poljot.

Seele said:
I suppose the problem is due to the fact that the Poljot brand name is now treated as "public domain", and nobody was around to enforce its ownership, as anyone and his dog can put together Poljot-branded watches for sale without let or hindrance. Besides there is no positive proof that these suspicious pieces are made in China either.
Interesting point. As I understand it currently the Poljot name is now under new ownership who are keen to enforce their rights (even over rivals who obtained limited naming right from the previous owners e.g. Poljot-Elite), however for a few years it was a total free-for-all at 34 Marksistskaya. This 'Poljot' branded Aviator-style watch may simply be a legacy of that time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
My assessment, based on the photos:

- Fake? Yes! (although see my comments below)

- Chinese movement? Yes!

- Chinese fake? Probably not.
Comrade Chascomm,

possibly a commission to one or more Chinese factories by unknown Russians.

The quality of the caseback inscription appears to match that of authentic Poljot items. The limited edition number is laser etched, but this is consistent with genuine Poljots. I'd like to see what the finishing on the front of the case looks like, however this looks like it could be from a batch of authentic Poljot cases.
Which original Poljot model had laser etched numbers?

The casebooks look much more like the newer (Volmax) Aviator backs but with ΠΟΛΕΤ substituted; they are bilingual, while casebacks of Cyrillic Poljots were not. There are large numbers of these fakes in PVD, by more than one seller and all of a sudden. The only PVD Poljot I recall was the Fortis look-alike; they now appear occasionally with casebacks that say Aviator, not Poljot, although the dial says ΠΟΛΕΤ, so spare parts are low.


The Shanghai ZSH movement is not current production, judging by the shockproofing device. This is an old stock movement.
So probably even cheaper to get rid of overstock.


Looking at the examples in the thread that Michele linked to, I am more inclined to think that this is a Russian fake of a Russian watch made with a Chinese movement and Russian case. Where did the case come from? Possibly the break up of Poljot.

…. As I understand it currently the Poljot name is now under new ownership who are keen to enforce their rights (even over rivals who obtained limited naming right from the previous owners e.g. Poljot-Elite), however for a few years it was a total free-for-all at 34 Marksistskaya. This 'Poljot' branded Aviator-style watch may simply be a legacy of that time.
The dial is not consistent with an actual Poljot. B-Uhr style with white Cyrillic marking? I have never seen that before. If you look at some of the auctions, the crown Poljot logo is also quite differently etched than original Poljot crowns. So I think he whole thing is of recent manufacture, hence the sudden large numbers available by more than one sellers. Cases are extremely easy to copy by a professional case making plant.
 

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Looking at the examples in the thread that Michele linked to, I am more inclined to think that this is a Russian fake of a Russian watch made with a Chinese movement and Russian case. Where did the case come from? Possibly the break up of Poljot.
I agree.

Anyway, the only "reliable old stock" Poljots are the ones totally made with components previously left in stock by Poljot, primarily by the companies that replaced the old company.

Another old trace here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/poljot-aviator-245644-post1774496.html

unfortunately some pics have lost the link, but there are some interesting hints.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Comrades, have you seen a case marked ΠΟΛΕΤ with Russian and English inscriptions before? It seems to me those were never made by Poljot. Also the dial , B-uhr with Cyrillic markings? I have never seen a Poljot dial like this before. So I seriously doubt these are old Poljot parts.
 

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Hello OKEAH,

A Chinese movement in a Russian watch. I hope the watch's performance is not too degraded.

heb
 

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Check this out. A fake Aviator slod by progress69. Outsourced dial, and a movement with a Chaika logo!?! Well, at least it's Russian!

View attachment 378224 View attachment 378222
One of the most diffused ones: "WEEK-DAY CALENDAR", the original should have two subdials for week-day hands, but there is just a day window. Already seen with old, dented Poljot movement.

The vertical date is not common on Chaika movements - stock spare part, or just a sticker on the Chaika date disk? :think:
A real mess anyway.
 

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Check this out. A fake Aviator slod by progress69. Outsourced dial, and a movement with a Chaika logo!?! Well, at least it's Russian!
True. At least this fake Aviator is actually Russian.

I've seen stuff like that before. Last year, someone posted a photo of a Vostok Komandirskie that someone had crudely re-dialed to say "Sturmanskie" on the dial in Cyrillic. I'm sure they're all the handiwork of some Ukrainian trying to cash in on the demand for Russian watches.
 

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Which original Poljot model had laser etched numbers?
Yes, you're right of course. The serial number is usually stamped (not etched) upon final assembly, which gives it a different texture to the rest of the caseback markings. So this watch was probably not assembled in an ex-Poljot facility. However the fact that the serial number appears to have been added in a separate process to the rest of the markings at least suggest that a stock of un-numbered backs has been used in the creation of these watches (whether there really are 500 of them in correct numbered sequence is another matter altogether)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes, you're right of course. The serial number is usually stamped (not etched) upon final assembly, which gives it a different texture to the rest of the caseback markings. So this watch was probably not assembled in an ex-Poljot facility. However the fact that the serial number appears to have been added in a separate process to the rest of the markings at least suggest that a stock of un-numbered backs has been used in the creation of these watches (whether there really are 500 of them in correct numbered sequence is another matter altogether)
Certainly a possibility Comrade Chascomm. However, I think there is another issue with the Poljot stock theory. Have you seen a caseback marked ΠΟΛΕΤ with both Russian and English inscriptions before? Also the dial , B-uhr style with Cyrillic markings? I have never seen a Poljot dial like this before. So I seriously doubt these are old Poljot parts.
 

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Certainly a possibility Comrade Chascomm. However, I think there is another issue with the Poljot stock theory. Have you seen a caseback marked ΠΟΛΕΤ with both Russian and English inscriptions before?
I've seen Poljot Aviator watches with a mix of languages on the back, however I'm not entirely sure of Poljot-branded watches.
Also the dial , B-uhr style with Cyrillic markings? I have never seen a Poljot dial like this before. So I seriously doubt these are old Poljot parts.
I agree, it is highly unlikely that this dial came from the same dial-maker as those of genuine Poljot watches.
 
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