WatchUSeek Watch Forums banner

1 - 3 of 3 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys,
2months ago I bought a 1993 TT GMT II with jubilee bracelet. The serial# is however NXXXX so the watch is probably produced 1991. The seller is a reputable guy and I picked it up in his home.

However, after reading John E. Brozek's book "The Rolex Report" I suddenly got concerned about the origin of the bracelet.
He claims (p.106) the bracelet clasp hinge pin is always smoothly finished on genuine Rolex whereas if the pin exhibits a simple cut piece configuration the bracelet is obviously fake.

I asked my AD watchmaker about this problem as I sent it for a complete overhaul but he claimed the bracelet was perfectly genuine.

Hm....I have a suspicious mind so I have now studied the pins of the bracelet clasp hinge of several old Rolex watches and found that old Rolex seems to have the same "cut piece-configuration" as my 1991 GMT II (more specifically I found this on a 1968 and 1971 GMT). However, I found a 1993 GMT that has the same smooth pin finish as my 2004 GMT II.

So according to my observations the configuration/the finish of this clasp hinge pin obviously changed somewhere between 1991 and 1993. It should be noted that all of above mentioned watches are for sale in Denmark at most honest and knowledgeable sellers and therefore the bracelets are most unlikely to be aftermarket. Is John E Brozek making a mistake when he states that all cut-piece configurated bracelets are fakes:-S ??

I attach 6 pictures showing the bracelet clasp hinges from above described watches:
1) 1968 GMT jubille bracelet with cut-piece clasp pin
2) 1971 GMT oyster bracelet with cut-piece clasp pin
3) 1993 GMT II oyster bracelet with smoothly finished clasp pin
4-6) My 1991 GMT II jubille bracelet with cut-piece clasp pin.

Any inputs are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Esben Buhl
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
Esben said:
Hi guys,
2months ago I bought a 1993 TT GMT II with jubilee bracelet. The serial# is however NXXXX so the watch is probably produced 1991. The seller is a reputable guy and I picked it up in his home.

However, after reading John E. Brozek's book "The Rolex Report" I suddenly got concerned about the origin of the bracelet.
He claims (p.106) the bracelet clasp hinge pin is always smoothly finished on genuine Rolex whereas if the pin exhibits a simple cut piece configuration the bracelet is obviously fake.

I asked my AD watchmaker about this problem as I sent it for a complete overhaul but he claimed the bracelet was perfectly genuine.

Hm....I have a suspicious mind so I have now studied the pins of the bracelet clasp hinge of several old Rolex watches and found that old Rolex seems to have the same "cut piece-configuration" as my 1991 GMT II (more specifically I found this on a 1968 and 1971 GMT). However, I found a 1993 GMT that has the same smooth pin finish as my 2004 GMT II.

So according to my observations the configuration/the finish of this clasp hinge pin obviously changed somewhere between 1991 and 1993. It should be noted that all of above mentioned watches are for sale in Denmark at most honest and knowledgeable sellers and therefore the bracelets are most unlikely to be aftermarket. Is John E Brozek making a mistake when he states that all cut-piece configurated bracelets are fakes:-S ??

I attach 6 pictures showing the bracelet clasp hinges from above described watches:
1) 1968 GMT jubille bracelet with cut-piece clasp pin
2) 1971 GMT oyster bracelet with cut-piece clasp pin
3) 1993 GMT II oyster bracelet with smoothly finished clasp pin
4-6) My 1991 GMT II jubille bracelet with cut-piece clasp pin.

Any inputs are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Esben Buhl
At first I was not sure what you meant but I have the book and the watches so I checked also. You are correct there is an error on that page and should be noted by those who have the book. I can take pics to prove this if anyone insists. On that page both bracelets appear to be real. Besides, someone could replace the pin with a cut piece of wire which would not make the bracelet fake, only the pin. My 1675 came from the past president of the Norwegan Horological Society and was last worked on by the current one. Both these men belong to other horological societies and are master watchmakers and highly respected collectors and experts. I also have extensive service papers so I am sure it is all authentic. My 1675 looks exactly like the one in the book that says "fake". My 16710 looks just like the other. I have to add I have found other mistakes in this book but hesitate to criticize Mr. Brozek. It is a huge undertaking to write a book on Rolex watches due to their secrecy and lack of any verifiable information. Thanks for the good presentation on this error. =) maverick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Maverick,
I do also appreciate Mr. Brozek's book and recognize the difficulties associated with writing such a book. So I have to emphasize that I am not trying to criticize Mr. Brozek - I admire his book and extensive studies of Rolex watches. This error just caught my attention and now I just wanted to pass on my experiences/research to the members of this forum.

As I stated in my other Thread it seems as if the configuration of the oyster bracelets clasp hinge changed somewhere in the early nineties (between 1991-93) whereas the change properly occured a bit later for the jubilee bracelet. The same is the case for the SEL - it was introduced first in the oyster bracelet and was used for the jubilee bracelet a bit later.

As regards the jubilee bracelet it should be noted that the best way to detect fakes is the shape of the D-shaped mid-links in the bracelet. Brozek's book beautifully describe the genuine shape of these and I have talked to several knowledgeable guys (including Mr. Morgan Jones - the moderator of a danish watch forum) and they said that they have never seen fake bracelets that could reproduce this shape right....

Well, thanks for an interesting discussion and have a nice weekend.

I'll be wearing my TT GMT for the weekend;-) .

Esben
 

Attachments

1 - 3 of 3 Posts
Top