Breitling Navitimer 2100 Quartz - French Air Force
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Very nice Pascal! Interesting piece of history.
Are you planning to get it working again?
Are you planning to get it working again?
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I am, though it is a low level priority right now. I'm keeping an eye out for possible sources for a replacement quartz module, or a donor watch for that matter, but I can't say I am actively searching.
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The Miyota movements actually appeared on the following generations of these quartz watches (see this page for reference). This particular one has a Swiss made ESA movement.
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That would make two of us, because I have no idea! :-S
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I seem to recall that a long time ago there was a watch, I believe also a Breitling, possibly a Navitimer, that had numbers written on the dial. I can be mistaken, but I think some of those numbers were the same. They looked like they had been added by hand. This was quite extensively discussed on the Breitling forum, and if I recall correctly, a conclusive answer was not found.
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Hi Pascal,
As I recall the discussion boiled down to whether the chapter numbers in question represented flight levels used on approach to a controlled air space.
The other aspect of the discussion was why a pilot would need reminding of his required flight level if he was on a flight plan and in contact with the tower.
Anyway as Ron said nothing was ever conclusively settled in regard to this interesting question. I'd really like to find one of the manuals supplied with one of these watches to see what explanation it offered. Then we could get it from the horses mouth. By the way I really like this 2100. Its so much more then meets the eye.
As I recall the discussion boiled down to whether the chapter numbers in question represented flight levels used on approach to a controlled air space.
The other aspect of the discussion was why a pilot would need reminding of his required flight level if he was on a flight plan and in contact with the tower.
Anyway as Ron said nothing was ever conclusively settled in regard to this interesting question. I'd really like to find one of the manuals supplied with one of these watches to see what explanation it offered. Then we could get it from the horses mouth. By the way I really like this 2100. Its so much more then meets the eye.
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Almost just like Pascal, I have very similar Navitimer 2100...
Couple months ago I found dads Breitling and asked him what is the story of this watch... And he told me that he and his collegues had an offer from (Yugoslav) airforce to buy these watches because they are military pilots. That was 1984 or 1985... Almost every pilot, who got the offer, bought the watch. But these watches didnt last more then two years! Dads watch break down after just five or six months, it was something about clutch. But because they got watches from airforce they didnt get warraty papers, only original box and watch with back plate engraved with insignia of airforce, every maintenance had to be paid... My father paid handsomly for repairs this once and it broke down again after couple months... He left it in it's original box, and wear older watch also from airforce - Citizen, witch is still working!
After I found it, I searched for Breitling maintenance centers here, and in every one of them, they told me that it can't be repaired and that Breitling stoped production of parts for it more then ten years ago. But in one of them it was mentioned that Breitling organized returning of these watches. But sinse war in Yugoslavia in the first half of 90's, noone did that here O|
I dont know what to do with it... Maybe I'll hang it on a wall as a decoration :gold
You might want to see these threads:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=7525&highlight=Breitling+2100
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=4540&highlight=Breitling+2100
PS Sorry for my english... Here are some pics...
Couple months ago I found dads Breitling and asked him what is the story of this watch... And he told me that he and his collegues had an offer from (Yugoslav) airforce to buy these watches because they are military pilots. That was 1984 or 1985... Almost every pilot, who got the offer, bought the watch. But these watches didnt last more then two years! Dads watch break down after just five or six months, it was something about clutch. But because they got watches from airforce they didnt get warraty papers, only original box and watch with back plate engraved with insignia of airforce, every maintenance had to be paid... My father paid handsomly for repairs this once and it broke down again after couple months... He left it in it's original box, and wear older watch also from airforce - Citizen, witch is still working!
After I found it, I searched for Breitling maintenance centers here, and in every one of them, they told me that it can't be repaired and that Breitling stoped production of parts for it more then ten years ago. But in one of them it was mentioned that Breitling organized returning of these watches. But sinse war in Yugoslavia in the first half of 90's, noone did that here O|
I dont know what to do with it... Maybe I'll hang it on a wall as a decoration :gold
You might want to see these threads:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=7525&highlight=Breitling+2100
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=4540&highlight=Breitling+2100
PS Sorry for my english... Here are some pics...
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I am definitely hanging on to mine, and yours is equally interesting. :-!
Mine made a short trip to Breitling's French service center, where I was told that they could not do anything to fix it. They also wanted to keep the watch and give me a discount on a new B1 as a compensation. I refused and thankfully got my watch back. I suspect that given the poor reliability of this model, Breitling is trying to sweep it under the carpet as much as possible in order to preserve its new found reputation. That's a pity, really...
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If they offered me full exchange (1 vs 1) for any watch I would accept... I searched for prices of B1 and it is too much for student like me... Average monthly salary in Serbia is a bit more then 200 euros...
So discount less then 95% would be unaccepable for me...
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Hi guys,
IMHO there is no doubt at all that the numbers on this 806 dial are flight levels (altitudes used to seperate aircraft flying in different directions whether under VFR or IFR).
But on this Navitimer 806 they are reminders of flight levels for VFR (Visual Flight Rules) only. The owner of this watch presumably was not qualified to fly IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) as he has not included the IFR flight levels on his Navitimer dial.
The right side of the dial has the numbers 35 and 195 representing the range of flight levels (normally in 2000-foot increments) for flying VFR due north and or an easterly direction, specifically on a course of between 0 and 179 degrees. The flight levels authorised for easterly flight are:
FL35 (altimeter showing 3500' above mean sea level at a pressure setting of 1013 mb)
FL55
FL75
FL95
FL115
FL135
FL155
FL175
FL195 (not used for VFR in the USA as all flights at this altitude are IFR)
The left side of the dial has the numbers 45 and 185 representing the range of flight levels in 2000-foot increments for flying VFR due south or in a westerly direction, specifically on a course of between 180 and 359 degrees, ie:
FL45 (altimeter showing 4500' above mean sea level at a pressure setting of 1013 mb)
FL65
FL85
FL105
FL125
FL145
FL165
FL185 (not used for VFR in the USA as all flights at this altitude are IFR)
The numbers on the Breitling Pluton (Navitimer 2100) are obviously flight levels too but they include both VFR and IFR and seem to increase in 4000 foot increments. Whether these larger increments are "actual" or whether the intermediate stages have been left off the dial to avoid clutter I cannot say. Someone more experienced than me needs to explain exactly how these particular numbers are/were used by military (and possibly civilian) pilots wearing this watch.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
IMHO there is no doubt at all that the numbers on this 806 dial are flight levels (altitudes used to seperate aircraft flying in different directions whether under VFR or IFR).
But on this Navitimer 806 they are reminders of flight levels for VFR (Visual Flight Rules) only. The owner of this watch presumably was not qualified to fly IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) as he has not included the IFR flight levels on his Navitimer dial.
The right side of the dial has the numbers 35 and 195 representing the range of flight levels (normally in 2000-foot increments) for flying VFR due north and or an easterly direction, specifically on a course of between 0 and 179 degrees. The flight levels authorised for easterly flight are:
FL35 (altimeter showing 3500' above mean sea level at a pressure setting of 1013 mb)
FL55
FL75
FL95
FL115
FL135
FL155
FL175
FL195 (not used for VFR in the USA as all flights at this altitude are IFR)
The left side of the dial has the numbers 45 and 185 representing the range of flight levels in 2000-foot increments for flying VFR due south or in a westerly direction, specifically on a course of between 180 and 359 degrees, ie:
FL45 (altimeter showing 4500' above mean sea level at a pressure setting of 1013 mb)
FL65
FL85
FL105
FL125
FL145
FL165
FL185 (not used for VFR in the USA as all flights at this altitude are IFR)
The numbers on the Breitling Pluton (Navitimer 2100) are obviously flight levels too but they include both VFR and IFR and seem to increase in 4000 foot increments. Whether these larger increments are "actual" or whether the intermediate stages have been left off the dial to avoid clutter I cannot say. Someone more experienced than me needs to explain exactly how these particular numbers are/were used by military (and possibly civilian) pilots wearing this watch.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
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Thanks a lot for this explanation. It definitely makes sense, and the silly thing is that after years of flying VFR, I should have thought about it myself!
But it's always nice to learn something new.
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Martin,
I do not claim to be anywhere near a knowledgable pilot having less than 150 hours in my logbook. However I will answer your questions as best I can.
Please note that the way flight levels are set up varies in different countries and the following is a simplification based essentially on what I have observed on Breitling pilot's watches and what I have learnt about the system used in the US. I am not sure which country(ies) Breitlings with FLs are designed to be used in but it is not the UK. Here in the UK where I live we have a slightly different system of flight levels based on four directions of flight rather than just two as used in the US and on Breitling watches.
IMHO the FL numbers around the edge of the dial are reminders only and have no direct connection with the time and no connection at all with the chronograph hands. And they also have no connection at all with the slide rule such as on a Navitimer ref 806.
However they do have a simple connection with the compass degrees on a watch that has a windrose bezel (for those unfamiliar with the term "windrose" it means a bezel marked in compass directions rather than the more common countdown or countup bezel marked in minutes or hours). If the windrose bezel is set with 0 degrees (ie due north) pointing towards 12 o'clock, any magnetic heading towards the right side of the bezel (and including 0 degrees) should be undertaken at one of the flight levels marked on the right side of the dial. And any magnetic heading towards the left side of the bezel (and including 180 degrees) should be undertaken at one of the flight levels marked on the left side of the dial.
This is clearly illustrated on the Breitling Hercules which has a windrose bezel and flight levels marked on the dial:
On the Hercules the red FLs are for VFR flight and the black for IFR flight. As I say, this is very simple in concept and once known does not require much grey matter to get right!
Additionally, in terms of your question about whether there is any connection between flight levels and the bezel, it seems to me that if a watch with a windrose bezel is being used as a solar compass (now indeed using the watch hands, to find due south and then align the bezel with it), one could then read off one's track (need to allow for magnetic variation and any cross-wind component but I'll ignore those for the purposes of this explanation) and then easily see the available flight levels. Naturally, great care is needed when close to a course of 0 degrees or 180 degrees!
Although this no doubt seems very simple in concept, when under high workload in the cockpit anything that simplifies, and importantly reduces the possibility of error, is not merely helpful but can be lifesaving.
I must admit that I am a little concerned that what I have just written may only be intelligible to someone who already knows all about this - my apologies if my writing style has rendered it non-understandable! Cheers,
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