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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
And, it's back! Bring a Brain is necessary again. Truth be told, not as much as previously, though. I'm most pleased to see movement pictures appearing in almost every listing. And, finally, the case back pictures. After many, many Bring a Brain instalments, I'm genuinely pleased to see that it made something of a change.

Still, there are a few things from the last few weeks, that need to be addressed, and they will be. Lads and lasses, this is your Bring a Brain!

First, this Omega:
https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/watches/products/1950s-omega-seamaster-with-explorer-dial

"Explorer dial." Ummmm...how about no? For one, the Explorer doesn't have an Arabic numeral at 12, and second, this pertains mostly to tool watch dials with lumed numerals, which this one isn't. Style-wise, it has about as much to do with the Rolex Explorer as Bernie Madoff with integrity.
But the movement would be my primary concern. The rust on the balance cock is just lovely, isn't it? Also, if someone would like to offer an explanation for why it's apparently the only such rust-coated part of the movement, that would be great.

Also, I have certain doubts about that dial - it could have been bloody well repainted, or it's a later service replacement. For one, the A in "Automatic" should have a flat top, which isn't the case here. The whole "Automatic" text looks somewhat iffy to me. Also, the A in Omega looks far too narrow, which is inconsistent with late 1950s Omega font. Should be a wide A or a flat-top A. The quality and alignment of the minute track are somewhat suspicious as well (look at 8 o'clock...). Now, because Omega didn't really make a lot of black-dialed non-tool watches back then, all these signs combined with the black dial are rather incriminating.


Now, another Omega:
https://shop.hodinkee.com/collectio...ster-reference-105-001-62?variant=49296111695

At first glance, nothing looks out of place. At first glance. I'm not quite sure if these hands go with that dial - that style of hour markers in the 105.001 was almost always (at least i haven't seen an exception...) paired with alpha hands. The batons were mostly used in combination with straight markers with a pointed end. They aren't incorrect for the reference; I'm just rather suspicious about them belonging with this particular dial version of ref. 105.001.
The end links look veeeery loose, and slightly too short for the lugs. Long story short, I don't think that bracelet (and these end links) belongs on this watch. Well, the bracelet may or may not belong on it, but at least the end links are more than suspicious in that respect.


Let's move on to the Jaeger Rustmaster:
https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/watches/products/1960s-jaeger-diver-20-atm?variant=48529117327

Appears to be missing a case screw, but that's the least of its problems. The rotor and the inner side of the back apparently are evidence of the case not having been very good at doing its job of keeping water out. I believe that piece of evidence is scientifically referred to as iron oxide, and of what we - the regular non-chemist chaps - say "IT'S RUST, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!"


Next in line is this Zenith Sporto:
https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/watches/products/1950s-zenith-sporto?variant=48776637455

First of all, it's heavily overpriced - on the contrary to the hype text, Sporto was an entry level collection. There isn't really much "utilitarian purpose" to it, as it's got a not-very-utilitarian press-in back. Also, from my experience with press-in backs, I'm unwilling to call them "sturdy." Whether the hands are "pencil" or not, that's likely debatable - although pencil hands tend to have an elongated tip, which these don't.
Also, the movement has not been correctly identified. As it has Incabloc, it is not the base calibre 126, but a cal. 126-6. The suffix does matter.


That's it for today's Bring a Brain - until the next instalment! And, of course, Bring a Brain will return if necessary!
 

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Thanks for posting that. I agree on practically all those comments. The Omega with rusty balance cock seems to have different gold plating on different movement parts. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a complete Frankenwatch. I couldn't believe the JLC, though. A watch from the Grande Maison, the company with more in house movements than any other - with an ordinary ETA 2783?!! With no engraving on the movement, just a printed logo?!! Come off it - if that's genuine, it must have been an extreme entry level budget model!!! And most certainly not worth three and a half thousand bucks!

Hartmut Richter
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Jaeger and JLC have at some point split - i.e. the watch wasn't made by JLC. The Jaeger company after the split was known for its car instrument panels (speedometers, rev counters, odometers...) - Jaeger watches (not JLC), as such, are rather run-of-the-mill pieces. And indeed, budget ones. Sadly, the former (and thus inexistent after the split) ties are being used to hype these watches, and to sell them at prices quite as obscene as this one.

As to the Omega, that was (and is) my thought as well - that it's a redial with a movement cobbled from parts of a few different movements. The calibre matches the case, but at this point, this doesn't really matter, if the movement has been frankenised - the watch is just as undesirable as if it was a total franken in terms of a case/movement mismatch.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Omega #1 and Omega #2 look like they're wearing the same exact bracelet.....
Not that I haven't thought the same, but I don't think they are- the outer links are slightly different.
 

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This Jaeger and Le Coultre thing has come up on the Forum before, a year or two ago? I think there's some sort of
obscure relationship there, but it's more like calling a Sicura a Breitling
 

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Apparently the last time lesson wasn't learned enough, eh? There is still a consistency in Hoddinkee's mediocrity and an unwillingness to scam potential buyers with junkpile condition or even franken watches. And their so called watchmaker, excuse me but if Hoddinkee claims that their watches are serviced without any bill or proof of service, I call that a fraud passible of legal action with a court prosecution...Seriously how can one sell watches at such unreasonable prices? That is borderline crookery to me.
 

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Thanks for posting that. I agree on practically all those comments. The Omega with rusty balance cock seems to have different gold plating on different movement parts. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a complete Frankenwatch. I couldn't believe the JLC, though. A watch from the Grande Maison, the company with more in house movements than any other - with an ordinary ETA 2783?!! With no engraving on the movement, just a printed logo?!! Come off it - if that's genuine, it must have been an extreme entry level budget model!!! And most certainly not worth three and a half thousand bucks!

Hartmut Richter
Hartmut –

Please don't help to perpetuate the long-standing Omega movement myth. As you surely know, there was was no gold in the plating.

Regards,

Tony C.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Apparently the last time lesson wasn't learned enough, eh? There is still a consistency in Hoddinkee's mediocrity and an unwillingness to scam potential buyers with junkpile condition or even franken watches. And their so called watchmaker, excuse me but if Hoddinkee claims that their watches are serviced without any bill or proof of service, I call that a fraud passible of legal action with a court prosecution...Seriously how can one sell watches at such unreasonable prices? That is borderline crookery to me.
I think it's willingness, not unwillingness...

The black dial Seamaster is an authentication fail, that's one thing. But still, I'm really trying to understand, how a movement with rust on it has passed any inspection. Same goes for the Jaeger.

Regarding the condition - the Jaeger is badly in need of an overhaul, so for now it is a rubbish condition. The Omega, meanwhile, as a franken would be due for an appointment with the trash can, if not for the fact that it would be better to just use it as a parts/case/bracelet donor.

The Omega listing has a rather funny slogan in it:
"If condition is your priority, look no further than this Seamaster..."
(*looks at the slogan, then at the rusty movement, at the slogan, then at the repainted dial, and at the slogan again) BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
 

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I think it's willingness, not unwillingness...

The black dial Seamaster is an authentication fail, that's one thing. But still, I'm really trying to understand, how a movement with rust on it has passed any inspection. Same goes for the Jaeger.

Regarding the condition - the Jaeger is badly in need of an overhaul, so for now it is a rubbish condition. The Omega, meanwhile, as a franken would be due for an appointment with the trash can, if not for the fact that it would be better to just use it as a parts/case/bracelet donor.
If their watchmaker is such an incompetent guy or a total inexperienced watchmaking noob, no wonder that it has passed the inspection.
 

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I remember see the Jaeger when they first posted it at doing a double take. I could pick up watches that are near identical to that for £200-300 on ebay easy. Nothing special about it and in dire need of a service.

I love how whilst they now post movement shots, if you enlarge the images you can see all the dirt and rust on them. How can they not in good conscience service these before sale?!
 

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I remember see the Jaeger when they first posted it at doing a double take. I could pick up watches that are near identical to that for £200-300 on ebay easy. Nothing special about it and in dire need of a service.

I love how whilst they now post movement shots, if you enlarge the images you can see all the dirt and rust on them. How can they not in good conscience service these before sale?!
You expect a fool to have a conscience? Like a famous saying goes by :" I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."Edgar Allan Poe
I don't expect something good from Hoodwinkee but mediocrity at the highest level especially with crappy condition timepieces like these ones
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Zenith Sporto for 1400!?

These pieces of crap can be found over here for 60-70$!?
Well, the steel ones weren't crap - frankly, I don't think any 1940s-1950s Zenith was (maybe save for the ones wirh chrome plated cases, Zenith's plating was hardly the height of durability) - but Sporto models were dirt common. Plus, as I've said, the press-in back ones were on the budget side of a budget collection, which makes them the most common Sporto versions to be found.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
You expect a fool to have a conscience? Like a famous goes by :" I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."Edgar Allan Poe
The way I understand Poe's words, and which is the meaning of them that I stick to, is that one needs to have a healthy self-deprecating look on their own limitations.

But I guess it can - to some extent - be repurposed this way.

I don't think that fools lack conscience as such, only it can work only as good as the rest of their minds. A lack of conscience, or conscience playing a little role is something a wee bit more sinister in nature, and comes mostly from ill will (could be in terms of greed, though frankly, the list of plausible nefarious purposes that cause it goes on and on) or willful ignorance in that respect. In case of Hoodwinkee, my money would be on willful ignorance. You know, sort of a "see no rust on the movement, see no redial, see no evil" take on things. OK, the dial maybe wasn't that easy to spot as having issues, and with their previous record of dial authentication fails I can't expect much of them, but the rust and the uneven colours of plating throughout the movement were​ easy to spot.
 

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Well, the steel ones weren't crap - frankly, I don't think any 1940s-1950s Zenith was (maybe save for the ones wirh chrome plated cases, Zenith's plating was hardly the height of durability) - but Sporto models were dirt common. Plus, as I've said, the press-in back ones were on the budget side of a budget collection, which makes them the most common Sporto versions to be found.
Yes.. I know. But this is obscene. Chronometer grade Zenith automatics with 25xx movements with boxes in NOS condition fetch a part of price, not this rusted piece of junk. I will not even comment on Omegas.
 
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