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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi,

Wasn't sure if this belonged in the selling/buying pages, but everything there seemed to relate to selling just via this forum.

I've just committed to a purchase a few days ago on chrono24 - using trusted checkout etc, so I figured I should be covered for any eventuality.

But in last couple days I've just started to get nervous, looking at the language used by the seller and reading some other people's posts on here about fakes etc and considering this seller was offering the watch a good £200 (about $250) cheaper than anyone else.
Seller is Cheshire Watches Ltd
They (and I) am in UK - anyone had any experience with them?

The watch is an Oris Great Barrier Reef II, RRP is around £1,500 but pretty much nowhere in the UK has one and the few ADs in Europe that still have one are on bracelet and asking for £1,700... its a LE, the seller was listing it in Euros but rough convertion on chrono24 site was £1,301. I asked for a quote and the page showed £1,354... then when I receive the offer from seller it was £1,392. I queried the rising price... but they explained the site itself adds the 3.5% fee, and then seller had added £45 shipping. I questioned that, which he said is their standard and might seem high, but its less than many competitors (I checked out and right enough all were charging £50+ for shipping and fee).
Then he said the watch has valid warranty, as it comes from EU AD. Great I figured, that was what I wanted, for the warranty to be originating from an AD so it is valid. Ships in 2-3 weeks.

But then afterwards I realised... if its coming from an EU AD, that means this guy isn't the dealer. He's like a middle man I guess, must be gaining from it. So how is the price so low?
And if its an EU dealer... why 2-3 weeks? European shipping is quick - I can get a package to Germany overnight if I need to, and standard courier is 3 days to most European countries.
Then there's the seller themselves. Their name and mobile is on the site, Aaron Frost, and I was able to track the company itself using Companies House, its at least valid in that sense. But there is a Cheshire Watch Company Ltd, who I actually called at first having had the two mixed up... and the lady said "no, we get that a bit - we definitely have nothing to do with him". Which is a funny thing to say, that I didn't quite pick up on immediately.

I may be worrying about nothing.
But at same time, my worry is, am I actually about to get a Chinese fake? And how will I be able to tell?
I have asked already who the AD is and what the serial is... all that's been said by seller is that he will ask the supplier when they are back on the 10th if they can provide the serial before dispatch.

Also if its not fake and from an AD... but I didn't buy direct from the AD, is my warranty actually valid anyway?

As I say I bought via the trusted checkout so worst-case I can return it and just lose the shipping cost... but its more the fact I've messed around a genuine AD who was going to hold one for me (albeit at a higher price) so I may be out of options.

Any thoughts/advice, particularly on how I can realistically ID the watch and verify warranty asap? Would Oris help or would they treat me with disdain for not going direct to ADs?
 

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They have been around for 4 or 5 years so I wouldn't worry about it all that much. Anyway you completed the transaction and paid through escrow so there nothing you can really do about it now.

FYI - the trusted checkout doesn't provide much protection. Although, I still don't think you have anything to worry about.

As as far as ADs...the guys who I have purchased from on Chrono24 seem to always have some side affiliation with an AD. I think it's like the ADs can't do it under there name so they just do it with a partner. Many seem to have the same ADs stamping all there cards.

Enjoy the watch. It's a pretty one.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
When you say they have been around 4 or 5 years... do you mean chrono24 or the specific seller here?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Exactly, that's what was making me unsure (that address is a mail pick-up postbox service I think).

But with the trusted checkout, I can just return the watch within 14 days.
My issue is, how can I check it's authenticity and whether the warranty is valid within those 14 days?

I wish chrono24 allowed buyer feedback and that you could contact them as you can via eBay, that way you can speak to other buyers and see what due diligence they did and if all was ok.

I did have concerns but figured that since chrono24 hold the cash and it can be returned, the risk is much lower than a private 1-2-1 sale.

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Discussion Starter #6
So an update...

Pleased in a way, to say that it transpired this seller actually is basically acting as a UK rep for Orologeria Bodoni SRL, a known Italian reseller that has a physical store, is also on chrono24 with a decent rating, and has feedback on another forum. That feedback in summary says they're a reseller that are reliable, with awful communication. So I'm probably paying a slightly higher price than going direct to the Italians but with someone else handling the hassle of comms.

The UPS tracking was provided Tuesday for next-day delivery. But then cancelled.
Then I got a notice of new tracking info and picked up the package from depot this morning.
Apparently the box of the initial one was marked, so they cancelled and sent another. And now the warranty card is unstamped... apparently they've sent the wrong card.

So a little bit shambolic, but in a way I'm glad I'm paying a small premium to a UK seller as trying to have these types of discussion with a non-English speaker would have been a nightmare.

Otherwise, watch seems genuine, has tags etc, serial no and ltd edition numbers tie up. I went to register it on myoris but can't without knowing the original authorised dealer so just awaiting that info.
But so far it seems legit, and as I say feedback on the Italian company suggests they're effectively grey market with legit pieces.



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Discussion Starter #8
Unstamped warranty cards is not really usual with grey market dealers.
Not usual, or not unusual?

They have said (well, communicating through Cheshire Watches) that the wrong card was sent and that they'll send the right one.
Simple fact is, I won't authorise the release of funds till I have it. If it doesn't arrive, I'll return the watch.
Based on info on that other forum about the Italian company, it seems they themselves source from genuine ADs across the Med, so it might be from Spain or Portugal originally.
It's weird that this card is unstamped though, but they'll manage to get one that is...
The benefit of myoris immediate online registration is that you can confirm the info immediately.

I'm still interested in knowing how I might check the watch for authenticity. It seems legit, no red flags such as missing serials etc, all packaging is present, I've tried on Oris in ADs and it seems same in build quality to those, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I see.

I thought that myself - I have bought from Ashford before, where they made it clear the manufacturer warranty was no use but that they provided their own 1yr warranty.
That's fair enough if its known up front.

Here I was told via the chrono24 site that the watch included 2yr manufacturer warranty. And Oris are fairly strict on it, you have to have the card stamped and register online.
But still, they claim to be sorting it out so I'll wait it out.

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Ike2112, I have that watch. If you want to PM pics of it to me I should be able to check its authenticity. Also, I've done many deals with Chrono24 Trusted Sellers without any problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Appreciate it

Pics below. Watch itself seems legit based on my own experience of Oris, its the accompanying paperwork that's a cause for concern.

Two things I wonder though.
Should the back of the case show Australia exactly upright (this is at an angle), and the strap - its huge! I've a wrist just under 7" yet I've had to put it in the hightest buckle hole.









 

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Discussion Starter #13
Two other things I noticed on the watch itself:
The Australia on the case back is at an angle, not sitting straight. You would have thought, from factory, this would be aligned - suggests its been opened?
Then the other is the strap. My wrist is a tiny bit under 7". Yet to wear the rubber strap I need it in the smallest fitting hole, and it causes the excess strap to have to curve under the buckle. That seems strange - someone with a 6.5" inch wrist couldn't wear this watch even if they wanted to.

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Congrats on your new watch, it looks great. With regard to your two observations:-

If the watch is brand new then it's unlikely the back has been removed. The case back is screwed on, therefore, regardless of which point you start to screw on the back when tight it will always end up in the same position. Showing a watch with upright Australia on Oris's website for promo purposes is one thing. Getting it straight on every watch coming out of the factory is quite another. Oris would have to be extremely precise at which point they started to cut the thread on the case and the back. Add a zero on to price and they might do it, otherwise it's just not worth their while.

With regard to the strap length, don't forget this is a diver's watch and would normally be worn over the dive suit hence the length of the strap. If the strap can't be cut to size then I'd look into getting a shorter one.
 

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Isnt the money held in an escrow account with chrono 24, ie you can check out the watch and they dont release your money unless you are satisfied? If so what's the worry? Or am I missing something?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Isnt the money held in an escrow account with chrono 24, ie you can check out the watch and they dont release your money unless you are satisfied? If so what's the worry? Or am I missing something?
Yes that's nearly right. They release funds when you say watch has arrived, and you get 14 days to arrange a refund if need be.

And so the worry now is, how do I ensure it's legit, not tampered with, paperwork is valid etc? It seems fine to me, but then I am not an expert and this model is hard to obtain in Europe so can't nip to a shop to compare. Originally I had a bit of a concern over the seller along the lines of what other posters noted earlier.

So far the paperwork isn't perfect, but explanation is that it's a mixup from when they changed the box and they'll sort next week.
 

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There are many reports of the escrow system being pretty heavily favored towards Chrono sellers. Some people put no trust in chrono24 and only the sellers reputation. I've never had a problem but as always buyer beware.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
From reading Oris forum it seems like the warranty won't be valid.
Even if card is stamped, and the one I have is not but they claim they will resolve, Oris need your original AD proof of purchase for any warranty work.

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Have you returned the card to get stamped?
I'm pretty sure they can't just reissue cards with the same serial numbers and then stamp it.


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Discussion Starter #20
Have you returned the card to get stamped?
I'm pretty sure they can't just reissue cards with the same serial numbers and then stamp it.


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No.
The paperwork I had didn't match the watch at all - where I tied up the numbers on card, to the watch, apparently thats just the model number.

And the separate doc that shows the limited edition number (although its written in) didn't match the watch.
I am awaiting the correct docs just now.

I don't think the watch is a fake; its robust, the caseback is very decorative and matches other people's pictures etc.

The supplier is Orologeria Bodoni SRL, who I have seen mentioned on another forum as selling legit pieces from ADs but with poor service and comms.
So I bought from Cheshire Watches Ltd on Chrono24, then Orologeria Bodoni SRL sent the watch, and they I presume obtained from someone else originally...

They basically have till Wednesday to sort out or its going back, which is a shame but right now a watch without matching paperwork, doesn't make me feel comfortable even if its a genuine mixup.
 
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