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Discussion Starter #1
I have been reading a ton on vintage vacheron watches. There seems to be some debate on whether the second "E" in the dial inscribed word Genve should all have an accent? Without it are all considered redials?

What say you experts?

Thank you.
 

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I am not positive but I have seen quite a few vintage VCs that seem to have original dials w/o the accent over the 'e'. None of the stamped "geneve" movements have the accent over the 2nd e either. I have read a little about when the '&' was done away with but havn't seen too much about the geneve accent. I have an old VC ('38) which i believe had/has an original dial but unfortunately the logo was rubbed off by seller. Some members comented that my V&C with SUISSE GENÉVA underneath indicated it was an old redial but I am not so sure. (I have to have this redialed-even if the seller hadn't rubbed off the logo as it was extremely faded in all respects)

But I am interested in this thread as I am doing as much research as I can before having it sent out to redialer.

good luck
 

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I am not positive but I have seen quite a few vintage VCs that seem to have original dials w/o the accent over the 'e'. None of the stamped "geneve" movements have the accent over the 2nd e either. I have read a little about when the '&' was done away with but havn't seen too much about the geneve accent. I have an old VC ('38) which i believe had/has an original dial but unfortunately the logo was rubbed off by seller. Some members comented that my V&C with SUISSE GENÉVA underneath indicated it was an old redial but I am not so sure. (I have to have this redialed-even if the seller hadn't rubbed off the logo as it was extremely faded in all respects)

But I am interested in this thread as I am doing as much research as I can before having it sent out to redialer.

good luck
why not contact Vacheron - OUTstanding company, I am SURE they would advise you
Adam
 

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why not contact Vacheron - OUTstanding company, I am SURE they would advise you
Adam
Thanks. Good advice. I think they could probably still make out the original dial-if its original-And hopefully tell me if they ever had VC/Suisse Geneve on the dial.
 

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If you post a photo of the dial, I'd be happy to provide an opinion. It is definitely the case that not all accent-less dials are redials.

Cheers,

Tony C.
 

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If you post a photo of the dial, I'd be happy to provide an opinion. It is definitely the case that not all accent-less dials are redials.

Cheers,

Tony C.
I know I'm not the OP but since you offer-(and I havnt contacted VC as of yet) Might I ask your opinion of the following? I understand it is at the point where to most vintage guys this dial would be BEYOND patina and in need of a re-dial. But I am still reluctant as I have a high tolerance for 'original' if it is indeed original. And I at least would like to know what I should look for in reworking it -if it comes to that. Any opinion-I would gladly accept. I'm mostly interested if you know about original 30s VC dials that have VC/Geneve SUisse on them. [i understand if this one is too far gone to have an opinion about. And fyi-there was an accent over the 2nd 'e'] thnx:

1938 VC square dial w. leCoutre movmnt finished to time and temp:

(updated pic oif dial w/o crystal. [hardly any difference ;)
 

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I'm afraid that the degraded crystal makes it difficult to judge with confidence. Based on the fonts used, however, I am somewhat skeptical that the dial is original. Please do update us after V&C has offered an opinion.

Tony C.
 

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I'm afraid that the degraded crystal makes it difficult to judge with confidence. Based on the fonts used, however, I am somewhat skeptical that the dial is original. Please do update us after V&C has offered an opinion.

Tony C.
Thnks. I know its pretty bad. The seller thought he would be making it more valuable the night before he shipped and decided to lightly clean it. The q-tip he used rubbed off about %50 of what was left of the already 50% degraded original dial. But I got it for such a good price I caoudnt ask him for less on de-value to the watch. Or the cost of restoring the dial.
 

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Thnks. I know its pretty bad. The seller thought he would be making it more valuable the night before he shipped and decided to lightly clean it. The q-tip he used rubbed off about %50 of what was left of the already 50% degraded original dial. But I got it for such a good price I caoudnt ask him for less on de-value to the watch. Or the cost of restoring the dial.
I think you will find VC very helpful
Sadly I do not own a VC, so unfortunately I have no contact inside the company, but a friend on another forum has a vintage VC - he contacted them and was invited to their private Museum too.

Give it a try first

Regards
 

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I think you will find VC very helpful
Sadly I do not own a VC, so unfortunately I have no contact inside the company, but a friend on another forum has a vintage VC - he contacted them and was invited to their private Museum too.

Give it a try first

Regards
thanks. fortunately for me-what the dial lacks- is made up by the very fine condition of the movement. ALthough mine is stamped for adj to time and temp. _i am still uncertain if this would be considered a chronometre grade. I am thinking-not. I hope that VC can be of some assistance. thnx
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you post a photo of the dial, I'd be happy to provide an opinion. It is definitely the case that not all accent-less dials are redials.

Cheers,

Tony C.
What exceptions were there when the accents were not printed? Certain models or years?
 

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What exceptions were there when the accents were not printed? Certain models or years?
The vast majority did include an accent, so it is generally useful to question those without. However, there were exceptions, and I have seen a small number over the years. They did not, to my knowledge, correspond to any particular models, though I have seen accent-less guilloche dials on more than one occasion. I believe this is an example:

Vacheron Constantin Watches European Watch Co., Buy Sell Trade-in

Also, some of the more modern ultra-thin models didn't have them.

Oh, and technically, it should be Guilloché!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The vast majority did include an accent, so it is generally useful to question those without. However, there were exceptions, and I have seen a small number over the years. They did not, to my knowledge, correspond to any particular models, though I have seen accent-less guilloche dials on more than one occasion. I believe this is an example:

Vacheron Constantin Watches European Watch Co., Buy Sell Trade-in

Also, some of the more modern ultra-thin models didn't have them.

Oh, and technically, it should be Guilloché!
Thanks, interesting that vacheron would accent some and not others. Must have been the different manufacturers they used.
 

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This is a closeup of a late 20s 18K V&C Art Deco watch I sold last year.
It is all original including the dial of course. The interesting thing here is that the dial is made in an earlier, more expensive and deirable process that involves hard enamel baking over Sterling silver rather than simple printing, so the dial is definitely original because refinishing would be insane. This was also a common 20s method in some Bulova Art Deco models, Gruen and Hamiltons and on almost all Patek Philippe metal dials to present. As you can see, the accent is not present on this model.

I assume that the accent became more dominant and somewhat mandatory in post-ww2 era watches, when the V&C logo was redesigned to be similar to the existing one used till today with the Maltese cross on top and a distinct font, thus preserving the brand spirit and logo using the correct fonts with punctuation necessary in French (The E with accent on top of it actually refers to a different syllable than the regular E).

CIMG3216.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So the missing accent is more the exception than the rule.

Besides the font, are there any other tall tale signs that a watch dial has been refinished?
 

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So the missing accent is more the exception than the rule.

Besides the font, are there any other tall tale signs that a watch dial has been refinished?
Experience and then more experience!
 

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Discussion Starter #17

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could you share some tidbits? i have not been collecting vintage watches too long. thanks.
Read old posts in the forum. Research. Knowledge is power. It is all out there but one post trying to answer your question won't equal time spent researching.

I know, that's a lot of work. But if it was easy there would be a lot more knowledgeable collectors than there actually are...
 
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