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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Could any members who happen to be well versed with Chinese and in particular Shanghai watches provide any details on this newest reissue that's been recently made available on TMall.

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.4-b-s.w4004-15442318957.3.75743146euPc9H&id=575847725073


It is 42mm in diameter apparently and is the third reissue that we've seen. The first being the 38mm version with bracelet and red seconds hand. The second type being the one offered by good stuffs at the moment with coin edge bezel and metallic seconds hand. New Shanghai army watch #114 reissue 24-jewel China's 1st marine military diver

Is the TMall version a legitimate Shanghai watch from the factory? Has the factory built three reissues of the old vintage military watch within a decade? There's been talk that using the term "reissue" in Chinese watch market means anyone not associated with the manufacturer can use their branding and make their own watches?! Could this apply to the TMall version or any of the three?

Thanks!
 

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This would be the fourth version. The first had a 22 jewel DG movement, a red date and an unmarked polished case back. It was only available with a steel bracelet. The second looked the same but had a 25 jewel Shanghai Z2 movement, a black date and inscriptions on the case back. It was available with a black leather strap. The one sold by Good-Stuffs is the third version.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This would be the fourth version. The first had a 22 jewel DG movement, a red date and an unmarked polished case back. It was only available with a steel bracelet. The second looked the same but had a 25 jewel Shanghai Z2 movement, a black date and inscriptions on the case back. It was available with a black leather strap. The one sold by Good-Stuffs is the third version.
Hi Chascomm, thanks for your reply. I recall Good-Stuffs selling a red second hand version so in your description, would be likely the first version since the dial was labeled to have 22 Jewels. The Z2 movement has a bad reputation according to the internet and because most of the English speaking world that has written about the Z2 have been replica watch buyers, their word is the only thing to go by and they say it has winding issues and keyless works issues allegedly. Since the TMall version also is labelled as 25 jewels, it probably carries this Tongji derived auto that superficially resembles 2824.

Would you happen to have any idea whether the four are indeed from Shanghai factory and no one else is faking them or they are making them as "reissues" completely disparate from Shanghai Watch Factory?
 

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Is the TMall version a legitimate Shanghai watch from the factory? There's been talk that using the term "reissue" in Chinese watch market means anyone not associated with the manufacturer can use their branding and make their own watches?
Thanks!
Paddy,
Yes, the TMall watch is an authentic Shanghai Watch Factory watch.
It comes from the Shanghai Watch Factory Flagship Store, which is the official Shanghai Watch Factory store on TMall.

About the term reissue: The TMall watch does not use the term "reissue" at all in the title or description. The title translates to this:
"Shanghai watch male automatic mechanical luminous men's watch 669 leisure dial calendar display mechanical watch male"
It also states: "Authentic Shanghai watch was elected flagship store official direct warranty", which means the watch has a warranty from the factory.

Unfortunately, this watch can only be purchased by someone in China unless you can find a 3rd party to purchase the watch and ship it to you. TMall items can only be purchased by someone in China.
Lastly, there are companies that provide this service for international buyers.

EDIT: The TMall version is a 28800 beat movement but it doesn't say which movement is being used.
 

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The price is good, this one is generally sold for a bit more expensive. I don't know about the quality but on one of the customer's pictures it looks a bit on the cheap side (I can be wrong). And only 30 meters for a watch that is supposed to be a diver it is a bit weird.
 

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And only 30 meters for a watch that is supposed to be a diver it is a bit weird.
I've wondered before whether it was really intended as a diver when first issued. First, it has a bidirectional countdown bezel, which only a few divers have; usually you only find that on watches for other purposes, like Sinn's aviation watches. And below Good Stuff's description that calls it a diver, the history section claims that the watch was intended for senior cadres within the PLA.
 

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I actually picked up the 669 via TMall on Double 11 and am wearing it today. I had previously purchased the 38mm version of the 114 in person at the Shanghai Watch Factory Store.

Personally I prefer the 24j 38mm version, but the bracelet it comes on is trash. The 669 wears large and flat, the bracelet has solid end links which is nice, the lume is very green even when not-charged, and the bezel rotates much too easily.

IMG_6542.jpg

I agree with @Danfried that the original probably wasn't actually a "diver"
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Paddy,
Yes, the TMall watch is an authentic Shanghai Watch Factory watch.
It comes from the Shanghai Watch Factory Flagship Store, which is the official Shanghai Watch Factory store on TMall.

About the term reissue: The TMall watch does not use the term "reissue" at all in the title or description. The title translates to this:
"Shanghai watch male automatic mechanical luminous men's watch 669 leisure dial calendar display mechanical watch male"
It also states: "Authentic Shanghai watch was elected flagship store official direct warranty", which means the watch has a warranty from the factory.

Unfortunately, this watch can only be purchased by someone in China unless you can find a 3rd party to purchase the watch and ship it to you. TMall items can only be purchased by someone in China.
Lastly, there are companies that provide this service for international buyers.

EDIT: The TMall version is a 28800 beat movement but it doesn't say which movement is being used.
Awesome info, much appreciated!

I suspect the movement could be a Shanghai Z2 variant that beats at 28800. I bought it using a friend's TMall access. In the past, they've used DG movements with 21600 bph for these three hand date watches. The other likely alternatives for these roles are Shanghai's own Z2 and Tongji based movements. I think most of those are all based off the old automatic Tongji movements. An in-house Shanghai movement would be preferable if it is at least as reliable and accurate as a generic DG2813 or similar type like ST16.

Thanks for confirming the legitimacy of the source and watch. I only assumed it says reissue like some of the others when sold on English speaking platforms. I guess this one is another version from Shanghai Watch Factory.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
The price is good, this one is generally sold for a bit more expensive. I don't know about the quality but on one of the customer's pictures it looks a bit on the cheap side (I can be wrong). And only 30 meters for a watch that is supposed to be a diver it is a bit weird.
The price I paid for it during the 11/11 sales is 1320 RMB or something like that. It translates to around $224 Australian Dollars. It is an amazing price when compared to general prices of all watches from all makers. For a Chinese mechanical, it is a fair price at this discount because its quality IS indeed lacking. I bought it because I've wanted to get the 114 style reissues for so long and now they want close to $400 USD from a possibly dodgy seller. It's still a nice watch at a justifiable price if one really likes it, but I don't want to spend $400 on a DG2813 type movement when I could get a decent vintage watch or a higher quality Seiko, Sea-gull, Orient, or Beijing for that kind of money.

The bracelet links look a bit on the cheap finishing side but the case, dial, and hands look decent enough and we all know Shanghai's been charging the market a premium just for their name. I suppose their very high end stuff is nice and pretty impressive so maybe they are also banking on those things to pull their low end products up a bit. Much like how Mercedes has the nerve to charge serious coin for something like a A-class.

I've wondered before whether it was really intended as a diver when first issued. First, it has a bidirectional countdown bezel, which only a few divers have; usually you only find that on watches for other purposes, like Sinn's aviation watches. And below Good Stuff's description that calls it a diver, the history section claims that the watch was intended for senior cadres within the PLA.
I think they originally built a watch for the military. It isn't a diver's watch and doesn't have a proper diving bezel as pointed out. It was just a "field" style piece for the military with the main function being uniqueness and lume. Honestly that era in China was filled with extreme hardship and poverty. It's quite amazing the industry managed to produce working watches at all, much less watches that are still running decently till this day. I doubt they had the machinery and experience back then to make more WR than 3ATM.

I actually picked up the 669 via TMall on Double 11 and am wearing it today. I had previously purchased the 38mm version of the 114 in person at the Shanghai Watch Factory Store.

Personally I prefer the 24j 38mm version, but the bracelet it comes on is trash. The 669 wears large and flat, the bracelet has solid end links which is nice, the lume is very green even when not-charged, and the bezel rotates much too easily.

View attachment 13660817

I agree with @Danfried that the original probably wasn't actually a "diver"
Nice pic! Thanks for the post. I agree with the 38mm versions looking much better. But this was at a price of around $160 USD and not also next to impossible to source. Could you tell me what you think of the quality difference between the two pictured? In terms of solidness, feel, crown threading and action etc. Appreciate your comments :)
 

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Nice pic! Thanks for the post. I agree with the 38mm versions looking much better. But this was at a price of around $160 USD and not also next to impossible to source. Could you tell me what you think of the quality difference between the two pictured? In terms of solidness, feel, crown threading and action etc. Appreciate your comments :)
Thanks, I'm still new to Chinese Watches myself, I would say between the two the build quality is about the same, the 38mm has a stiffer bezel action which makes it actually usable with long sleeves (probably specific to mine rather than all the 699s); the bracelet of the 42mm version is better though not as nice as anything from Miltat/Strapcode or even Tisell. The movements are not as nice as the Seagull movements I've handled in other watches from EMG, HKED, Baltic, Origin, etc... for example, sometimes the second hand doesn't hack with the crown in the time setting position, and there's quite a bit of slop when you pull the crown out to the time setting position. But overall they're fine, I appreciate them for what they are, and I like the this 114 style much more than a most of the contemporary options.
 

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I'm currently in Canada and have thought about getting a 114 for a while, but my searches on AliExpress for this watch don't turn up anything.

I can find plenty of Sea-Gull watches, though. It makes me wonder if Shanghai is keeping a much tighter grip on distribution than Sea-Gull.

I'd prefer not to get the 114 from Good Stuffs (which has the beads-of-rice vintage-style bracelet). I'd prefer the versions I've seen with Oyster bracelets.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm currently in Canada and have thought about getting a 114 for a while, but my searches on AliExpress for this watch don't turn up anything.

I can find plenty of Sea-Gull watches, though. It makes me wonder if Shanghai is keeping a much tighter grip on distribution than Sea-Gull.

I'd prefer not to get the 114 from Good Stuffs (which has the beads-of-rice vintage-style bracelet). I'd prefer the versions I've seen with Oyster bracelets.
I think the case on the current Good Stuffs site is nicer with the coin edged bezel but the version with the red seconds hand is still the best looking in my opinion. That one is rare/ impossible to source now and even if one can find it, it will cost close to $400 if not much more. That one's bracelet is definitely more preferable to the weird beads mesh like bracelet.

It will take around a month before the 42mm version gets delivered. I will try to remember to post up a review and pics.
 
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