[JustAnotherWatchFan]

Hi all, new poster here so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place. I recently purchased a "Seagull" 1963 watch from LongIslandWatch (the one listed here, 38mm with sapphire crystal Seagull 1963 Hand Wind Mechanical Chronograph with Sapphire Crystal #6345G-2901 ) and am very pleased with it. However, I recently became aware that these are not official Sea-Gull company watches but made by other manufacturers. I am a little disturbed by the fact the watch came with no tags or documentation but I'm hoping someone can help me identify who or what factory actually made the watch. I know there are some experts on these watches in the forum.

It came in a simple wooden box painted green with a red star on it. The watch comes in a green NATO strap and it has a blue swan's neck regulator in the movement. The back has some Chinese text that I think says air force chronograph and the year 1963. The crown has a blue protective paint over it and a simple star engraving. I attached some pics. Any help IDing this would be really appreciated.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

I believe Mark is dealing with Red Star, so that should be a Red Star 1963.
But...the small hands appear to be reversed from the Red Star versions I have seen. The long hand is usually on the right side of the dial. I could be wrong though.

Have a look at the Red Star 1963s on Taobao; you can see the difference.

店内搜索页-奕璇表店RedStar-淘宝网

淘宝, 店铺, 旺铺, 奕璇表店RedStar

yxbd.world.taobao.com

 

[dfwcowboy]

I believe Mark is dealing with Red Star, so that should be a Red Star 1963.
But...the small hands appear to be reversed from the Red Star versions I have seen. The long hand is usually on the right side of the dial. I could be wrong though.

My Red Star solo came in a box of the same design.

 

[chris902]

It's a Redstar and they have a legtimate claim to being the first company to manufacture repro "1963" chronographs.

The "authenticity" of the various 1963 repros is both extremely interesting to me and incrediblyn not interesting to me depending on the day. I think it's neat because it really destabilizes the concept of authenticity, but it's boring because it can be a pointless pissing match.

Here's an interiew with the founder of Red Star: AMCHPR CWCF 2019 RedStar Watches

 

[JustAnotherWatchFan]

Thanks so much for the replies everyone! I do kind of wish the watch came with some kind of documentation indicating its origin. But it seems like, based on these replies, it's almost certainly a Red Star production.

My Red Star solo came in a box of the same design.

This in particular makes me confident it is in fact a Red Star!

It's a Redstar and they have a legtimate claim to being the first company to manufacture repro "1963" chronographs.

The "authenticity" of the various 1963 repros is both extremely interesting to me and incrediblyn not interesting to me depending on the day. I think it's neat because it really destabilizes the concept of authenticity, but it's boring because it can be a pointless pissing match.

Here's an interiew with the founder of Red Star: AMCHPR CWCF 2019 RedStar Watches

This is very interesting background, thanks! Cool to see that the founder is in fact a former Sea-Gull employee. I also agree that the question is kind of a moot point - the quality is absolutely phenomenal. But it feels odd having something so great and not knowing who exactly made it. I think now I am pretty satisfied that it is Red Star.

 

[JustAnotherWatchFan]

Aha! I think I found additional evidence. According to this blog post, the watch with the green NATO strap is almost IDENTICAL to the one I have (including the short hand on the right subdial): My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

The case back is slightly different and obviously mine now has the swan neck regulator, so I wonder if mine is a later revision

 

[vintorez]

The blued swan neck is interesting, I've only ever seen photos of it gold coloured

 

[JustAnotherWatchFan]

Update for anyone curious: I emailed Thomas Leung directly and he confirmed it's one of his watches! He was super fast to reply too, cool guy

 

[TransporterG]

Thanks for the info, all. I had also been curious if these were Red Star watches, as I bought a few from Julian in Munich with the same cool communist green watch box with the star.--exactly the same as the OPs. I've lived in China for decades and scoured the antique markets since the late 80s for communist 50s-60s art, so I knew these were replicas of replicas of a storied watch, real or imaginary. Nonetheless alluring.

Like many of you, I had to weed through the data and confusion to find out what is the most "legitimate" Seagull 1963 you have been exploring since 2014 or so. Looks like most of the watches with the "中国制造“ watches in the Army green box and "upgraded blued swan neck regulator" are Red Star at volume with the ST19 Seagull movement. Clear case back. And the green Nato strap--why Nato strap? A bit counterintuitive for a revolutionary Charmian Mao watch, no? Should be a Lei Feng or Peng De Huai band or something more historically relevant.

I also purchased an outstanding 1962 Plan B that is manufactured at the Sea-Gull company, the one that claims the 天津 factory seen on the watches that say 天津手表厂, the original Tianjin Watch Factory of the Seagull fame. Factory probably moved many times or just independently reincarnated by another person to claim the legacy, as the whole city has been torn down and re-built a few times since I started going there in 1990. Or equally likely, made in some non-descript town of someone's brother's cousin's nephew, no where near north China.

Known as Sea-Gull, the one providing the movements of the former Venus chronograph, watches sold are in a completely different box with Chinese documentation. No clear case back from Sea-Gull as well, and the watch is shipped on a marginally serviceable black leather strap. No Nato strap, and no star or sea-gull logo on the crown. It's supposed to be a limited edition of 650 watches, but we all know nothing means anything in this gig.

The Plan B watch from Sea-Gull is however very well finished and detailed, better than my 1963s (we have 3) in the communist army green boxes from Red Star. All the Red Star and Sea-Gull are good watches though and reasonably regulated for a mechanical chrono at this price. No complaints. And the Plan B just a killer 50s dial, Chinese character design, almost art deco circular dial structure, and impressive applied numeral font design and execution.

Julian at Poljot24 in Munich is a wonderful merchant of these watches, rapid DHL shipping, and he always has a surprise for you. Photos below are from Julian's Poljot24 site.

 

[JustAnotherWatchFan]

Thanks for the info, all. I had also been curious if these were Red Star watches, as I bought a few from Julian in Munich with the same cool communist green watch box with the star.--exactly the same as the OPs. I've lived in China for decades and scoured the antique markets since the late 80s for communist 50s-60s art, so I knew these were replicas of replicas of a storied watch, real or imaginary. Nonetheless alluring.

Like some of you, I had to weed through the data and confusion to find out what is the most "legitimate" Seagull 1963 many of you have been exploring since 2014 or so. Looks like most of the watches with the "中国制造“ watches in the Army green box and "upgraded blued swan neck regulator" are Red Star at volume with the ST19 Seagull movement. Clear case back. And the green Nato strap--why Nato strap? A bit counterintuitive for a revolutionary Charmian Mao watch, no? Should be a Lei Feng or Peng De Huai band or something more historically relevant.

I also purchased an outstanding 1962 Plan B that is manufactured at the Sea-Gull company, the one that claims the 天津 factory seen on the watches that say 天津手表厂。 Known as the original Tianjin Watch Factory of the Seagull fame. Factory probably moved many times or just independently reincarnated by another person to claim the legacy, as the whole city has been torn down and re-built a few times since I started going there in 1990.

Known as Sea-Gull, the one providing the movements of the former Venus chronograph, watches sold are in a completely different box with Chinese documentation. No clear case back from Sea-Gull as well, and the watch is shipped on a marginally serviceable black leather strap. No Nato strap, and no star or sea-gull logo on the crown. It's supposed to be a limited edition of 650 watches, but we all know nothing means anything in this gig.

The Plan B watch from Sea-Gull is however very well finished and detailed, better than my 1963s (we have 3) in the communist army green boxes from Red Star. All good watches though and reasonably regulated for a mechanical chrono at this price. No complaints. And just a killer dial and applied font design.

Julian at Poljot24 in Munich is a wonderful merchant of these watches, rapid DHL shipping, and he always has a surprise for you.

View attachment 15571809 View attachment 15571810 View attachment 15571811 View attachment 15571812 View attachment 15571813

Nice pics! The official Sea-Gull version is also great but I must say I do really like having the clear case-back. The movement is just awesome to look at.

As a side note, I do also own the official Sea-Gull reissue of the Wuxing and it is stunning what value you get for the money from Sea-Gull. Maybe I'll do a review of it on here.

 

[TransporterG]

@JustAnotherWatchFan , I agree! The clear case backs of these red star versions are excellent--maybe that's why the sellers are selling so many of them from Red Star.

Sea-Gull should do the clear case back of the column wheel movement, very impressive and classic chrono design. Better than many of my watches that cost 20x these do. Please do show that Wuxing!

 

[benjomd]

@JustAnotherWatchFan , I agree! The clear case backs of these red star versions are excellent--maybe that's why the sellers are selling so many of them from Red Star.

Sea-Gull should do the clear case back of the column wheel movement, very impressive and classic chrono design. Better than many of my watches that cost 20x these do. Please do show that Wuxing!

...took a 1962 and asked Julian to put in a clear caseback so its an option for those wanting to see the movement

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

@benjomd what you have there is a Red Star 1963.
TransporterG is talking about the Tianjian Sea-Gull version of this watch that has the solid case back and the LE number.
Those don't come with the option of a display case back.

...took a 1962 and asked Julian to put in a clear caseback so its an option for those wanting to see the movement View attachment 15573748

 

[TransporterG]

@Monkey_like_watch , @benjomd is right. Julian does offer to add a clear case back to the Plan B but I wanted to keep the watch as it comes from Sea-Gull.

 

[benjomd]

@benjomd what you have there is a Red Star 1963.
TransporterG is talking about the Tianjian Sea-Gull version of this watch that has the solid case back and the LE number.
Those don't come with the option of a display case back.

this one is from the sea-gull 1962 and yes , i have a red star ...last picture right most

here is the replaced casebck and the dial

there are some variations on the caseback

the sea-gull would be second from the left

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

@benjomd Awesome! I didn't know you could buy that. I guess they have the same case size so a swap should be easy.
Very cool!

 

[TransporterG]

Very interesting. If the second from the left is the Sea-Gull, what are the other three?

 

[benjomd]

Very interesting. If the second from the left is the Sea-Gull, what are the other three?

...in order

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

Let me guess.
HKED, Tianjin Sea-Gull 1962, HKED, Red Star.
Am I right?

...in order

View attachment 15578802

 

[benjomd]

Let me guess.
HKED, Tianjin Sea-Gull 1962, HKED, Red Star.
Am I right?

quite right