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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I love canteens and am trying to find who makes the "Soviet" brand of watches which all seem to feature canteens, I found a Chinese Ohlsen or Ohlson which are OK ish but I don't like dual display types much.

Saw this on ebay but outta my price range:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Old-Stock-Russian-USSR-Divers-Watch-Zlatoust-Amphibia-VMF-CCCP-Gold-Case/192936660270?hash=item2cebebcd2e:g:WkgAAOSwOFtc88IF

I have my eye on a couple of TW Steels but it seems like jump hours these canteen crown watches are jumped on almost as soon as they are listed :(

Any other brands to consider?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I found a rather bizarre thing from Italy called is it an Orac? Well Orac was the super cool supercomputer in Blakes 7, it was also an evil and utterly rubbish home computer around the time of the Sinclair Spectrums with an equally awful sister called an Atmos which made you pull hair out when after 20 hours typing in code, you hit save and the whole thing crashed arrgh

The Orac however has potential, with the lower quadrant canteen crown set in the current trend square aviator's case and a rather pathetic fake power reserve on the dial well the dial will be going and going to see what I can get shoved in there that doesn't say cheap tat... I hate fake dials on watches, its just so nasty looking imho esp when them clever folks in China can chuck out fully functioning chrono's for a tenner, my £16 rose gold Lige has been a performer and the dreaded worry of the finish wiping, washing or scratching off has failed to materialise and the lume has remained super potent too.

Heads up on the watchmaking front, Bestrus has just put up a stack of Century Time style hands for all 24xx movements so I nabbed a few as I can see potential with the lumed arrow second hand with a set of silvered Amphibia arrows would look super cool.

Also, I see allegedly Vostok auto hands fit on some miyotas and wondered if the 2414 and 2409 hands were the same size as the 2415/6 etc as there is a ton of custom hands awaiting if that is the case and I quite like the idea of a set of Omega seamaster arrows on one of my Vostoks.

Final question, what do you need to measure hands as I am unsure what to aim for with my Slava auto where the hands have become oversized and slipping all the time, the shaft seems to be unworn but the hands are pretty winkled sliding round with tiniest of pressure, if they are standard Slava hands then I have a ton of the square baton types. I do have some Brown & Sharpe vernier calipers and a mechanical set of calipers but I don't think are precise enough for such as hand diameter measurements :(
 

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In my 60+ years of English studies, the word canteen has only come up as a place for food, and sometimes a store or place to put supplies, but never anything to do with a watch. I see Webster's also lists a British use of "a chest for storing flatware" which was new to me. Sorry for asking, but what is the connection with watches? Educate me. :)
 

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Not sure with origins of the term, certainly Hamilton were using as were the Russians as a term, perhaps in a form referring to a water bottle shape as there were water bottles used by armies that had the little chain between cap and bottle which I remember my own from service which had a very bright aluminium chain that broke just about every covert and camouflaged rule in the book and a pain to keep it covered so on exercises I muddied it up so I didn't get irate sergeants shouting at me for this little glinting traitor on my bottle.

In operation it creates an extra air barrier to an unprotected crown, thus sealing a watch at deeper depths, the Longines HS had a remarkedly long "canteen" but that was only ever a prototype as the Royal Navy went with another design especially as the Longines HS had a high silver usage which must have made the procurer's blink a few times and anticipating a war anything with precious metals in had better be the best of everything or out the window it goes.
 

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The Gruen Soviet (Swiss brand, Soviet parts) was a Glasnost-era fashion-watch homage to the Zlatoust 191-ChN. Other European and Asian brands have since copied the Gruen Soviet, with or without hammer & sickle embellishments.

The 191-ChN has also been replicated by anonymous builders in St Petersberg to be passed-off as genuine Zlatoust vintage items, usually with a prominent crystal-guard.

One of those knock-offs served as the basis for Invicta's 'Russian Diver' line, accompanied by an entirely bogus history about Invicta making the original for the Soviet navy.

Italian brand U-Boat (backed by a story of the founder's grandfather's unrealised wartime aspiration to build a dive watch) essentially copied the Zlatoust pattern with a few detail changes to make the case shape original.

The runaway success of U-Boat was probably what motivated TW Steel to do their own version.

Meanwhile back in Russia, Slava had made their own canteen crown Slava Kapitan, which was more decorative than practical, but a fun watch nonetheless.

And finally, Zlatoust Watch and Clock Factory Agat have reclaimed their design and launched a range of reissues in various sizes from way-to-big all the way up to epic.

Those are the main ones that spring to mind for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The Gruen Soviet (Swiss brand, Soviet parts) was a Glasnost-era fashion-watch homage to the Zlatoust 191-ChN. Other European and Asian brands have since copied the Gruen Soviet, with or without hammer & sickle embellishments.

The 191-ChN has also been replicated by anonymous builders in St Petersberg to be passed-off as genuine Zlatoust vintage items, usually with a prominent crystal-guard.

One of those knock-offs served as the basis for Invicta's 'Russian Diver' line, accompanied by an entirely bogus history about Invicta making the original for the Soviet navy.

Italian brand U-Boat (backed by a story of the founder's grandfather's unrealised wartime aspiration to build a dive watch) essentially copied the Zlatoust pattern with a few detail changes to make the case shape original.

The runaway success of U-Boat was probably what motivated TW Steel to do their own version.

Meanwhile back in Russia, Slava had made their own canteen crown Slava Kapitan, which was more decorative than practical, but a fun watch nonetheless.

And finally, Zlatoust Watch and Clock Factory Agat have reclaimed their design and launched a range of reissues in various sizes from way-to-big all the way up to epic.

Those are the main ones that spring to mind for me.
Cool stuff and really am up for getting something along those lines.

As it happens I do have a 2627 auto movement from my "Okean-ish" Slava, I have a ton of the bigger Slava cases including a spare volcano amongst things and liked the idea of that Slava Amphibian as a homebrew if the Kapitan dials can still be found?

OMG I spotted the Zlatoust 193 bronze with the extended bronze canteen and caseback... and apparently they have a model in SS that has an even larger and longer canteen that only left hookers like meself can wear...

This is what I picked up last nite...

orac.PNG

Paid 8 euros and until I get it here and opened up will look to see what dial I can fit, a square solid steel case and a canteen with no doubt a lozenge or miyota 2115 stuffed in there but I have so much stuff in little boxes I am sure I can find something that will look a lot better than the silly thing with the fake power reserve lol

The only one I have here is the nice looking til you actually get it Eaglemoss "homage" to the Longines HS, Eaglemoss really messed up there in making it a half size watch, like they made the tank commander twice the size of the original Vostok, the Luftwaffe using the same case as the tank commander but they went tiny on the deep sea diver which the original prototype was huge due to expected depths of deep harbours etc.

I am hoping I am upping my game a little in rising upwards from the common Vostok's, Slava's etc, I am on hold til my 2409 movement arrives on my radio room build and I have stopped buying Vostok's as I have pretty much all I want from the Komandirskie or Amphibia range.

As I am slowly working through my watch repair course I am getting better at it, I feel competent enough in handling much but still have the issue with second hands and balance assy's to overcome, slow work esp as I suffer from memory problems so I have to do the exercises ten times or more to get it my addled brain but I am hoping by Xmas I will be haltingly able to do a full strip, clean and rebuild, this poor 2234 Vostok movement I have used as my test subject is looking the worse for wear but haven't snapped anything or broken any fine parts yet and my tweezer work is improved massively too :)
 

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In my 60+ years of English studies, the word canteen has only come up as a place for food, and sometimes a store or place to put supplies, but never anything to do with a watch. I see Webster's also lists a British use of "a chest for storing flatware" which was new to me. Sorry for asking, but what is the connection with watches? Educate me. :)
You've seen the word used as place for food or a store, but never something you drink out of? Maybe it's a US thing and they call them water bottles elsewhere in the world.
15323742
 

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In the British forces, a canteen was the mess tin, it could also apply to a canteen of tea or water for a whole platoon or the big deep alloy trays food cooked and served up in mess halls.

Navy wise, a British or empire sailors kept their rum tot in a purpose metal can or bottle called a canteen as well, a pint of 60% molasses rum kept many a good sailor alive in cold climes, navy cocoa also had a huge dollop of the stuff, I have ordered something I haven't had for decades and that is some of that 151 percent proof stuff, only stuff I ever had stronger was the thick molasses syrup they brew in the Caribbean, you pour it out like cough syrup and is evil strong insta-drunk and on your back stuff. Only person I ever see not respond to the syrup was me late mother, who as a fleet st editor and journalist could outdrink a pub full o' Irishmen and still walk 9 times out of 10, she was an absolute legend for the hard stuff o_O
 

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You've seen the word used as place for food or a store, but never something you drink out of? Maybe it's a US thing and they call them water bottles elsewhere in the world.
That makes it clear. Webster's (US dictionary) refers to that as a flask, but also a canteen. I just hadn't made the leap. regarding the shape. When you show one with a large lid like that it makes perfect sense. Thanks.
Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread to much. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have a Websters to look up unusual or ancient words still used in the US showing the difference between the two languages, catches me out all the time things like "comptroller" and the old campaign to de-English english over there by changing the word tyre to tire as our spelling infuriated this bunch of people who wanted things spelt logically rather than with the French influence like Centre vs Center.

Once upon a time, only the poor people here in England spoke English, the posh and titled all spoke French, then of course there is the colloquialisms to navigate through, I am a fluent speaker of cockney or London rhyming slang and when I worked for Salomon Bros an American merchant bank back in the eighties, me doing all the apples and pears stuff seemed to entertain them immensely lol

For my sins I am a great fan, like Professor Tolkien was, of understanding origins of words. I just love the influences we pick up over the years that become a de factor part of our modern language.

I am a dyed in the wool South Londoner and here is an example of how we sound to visitors...

 
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