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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Salvete, amici!

In the wake of Casio's latest release regarding the PRW2500, the next Pathfinder/ProTrek model, I thought I'd consolidate into one thread all available information on the new model.

New information:

Design

  • As predicted by Queen6, aimed more generally at outdoor enthusiasts, "whether hiking a trail, conquering a mountain or kayaking rough waters."
  • Likely incorporates the 2000 series' improved (compared to the 1500's) sensor design, which reduces the size of the sensors by approximately 40%, while allegedly also improving accuracy by some 60%. (Thanks to JonL for research and interpretation.)

Release

  • Sometime "this Summer"
  • Casio America's CEO refers to "outdoor enthusiasts gearing up for the summer season" as being the target for the new model; because people would obviously buy gear before setting out, one assumes that the PRW2500 won't be coming out in late August or anything.
  • June 25, 2011 or June 30, 2011 are dates listed by online sellers for the release of the PRX-2500T-7JF, which will be available only in Japan.
Pricing

  • Resin band (PRW2500-1) - $300
  • Titanium band (PRW2500T-7) - $400
  • Manaslu (PRX-2500T-7JF) - $1160
Sources:
"Casio Expands ProTrek Line with New Cutting-Edge Timepiece at JCK 2011." Casio USA. June 3, 2011. News - CASIO

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ƒeƒNƒmƒ�ƒW�[ - PRO TREK | ƒvƒ�ƒgƒŒƒbƒN - CASIO


The PRW2500 is arguably most similar in capabilities and design to the PAW1500 series. As such, I include below a list of the differences to be found in the 2500 series.

Changes to PRW2500 from PAW1500:

Timekeeping
-More time zones and cities for World Time
Memory
-14 records, down from the PAW1500's 20
Backlight
-Selectable illumination duration: 1.5 / 3.0 seconds
Construction
-Hybrid Mount Construction (claimed to improve durability)
Sensors
-Speculated, based on sensor improvements in the 2000 series, to have sensors 40% smaller and 60% more accurate than those of the 1500 series
-Speculated, based on barometer behavior in the 2000 series, to display differential indicator for 1 hour after barometer mode is activated
Alarm
-Speculated, based on images released of the PRW2500 (see http://www.casio-europe.com/psystem/picturedownload/?pro_trek_prw2500_press.jpg, upper-right area of display) to feature greater control over alarm volume


Dimensions


-56.3 × 50.6 × 15.0 mm (PAW1500 was 56.2 X 50.6 X 13.9mm)
*So, 0.1 mm wider and 1.1mm thicker than the PAW1500

Further estimated measurements:


Circumference: 16.79 cm (PAW1500 was 16.78 cm)
Area: 22.44 cm2 (PAW1500 was 22.39 cm2)
Volume: 33.66 cm3 (PAW1500 was 31.12 cm3)

****For all measurements, diameter was estimated as the average of height and width.****
 

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Salve, amici!

I just thought I'd share Casio's latest release regarding the PRW2500, the next Pathfinder/ProTrek model.
New information:

Design


  • As predicted by Queen6, aimed more generally at outdoor enthusiasts, "whether hiking a trail, conquering a mountain or kayaking rough waters."


Release


  • Sometime "this Summer"
  • Casio America's CEO refers to "outdoor enthusiasts gearing up for the summer season" as being the target for the new model; because people would obviously buy gear before setting out, one assumes that the PRW2500 won't be coming out in late August.

Pricing


  • Resin band (PRW2500-1) - $300
  • Titanium band (PRW2500T-7) - $400

Source:
"Casio Expands ProTrek Line with New Cutting-Edge Timepiece at JCK 2011." Casio USA. June 3, 2011. News - CASIO
Iwould really love this if i dint find this another changed display copie of paw15000

Id love to see this having something really added like sunrise set time, and 24h stopwatch,timer alti locetc
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Iwould really love this if i dint find this another changed display copie of paw15000

Id love to see this having something really added like sunrise set time, and 24h stopwatch,timer alti locetc
Those would be some great features to have. But what do you mean by a "changed display copy" of the PAW1500?
 

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Those would be some great features to have. But what do you mean by a "changed display copy" of the PAW1500?
Χαιρε Αλκιβιάδη

With all do respect i would really love to see something really new and when i first saw it i expected tis would be something like this.

But after reading the specs i saw that except some minor upgrades this is the same with paw 1500 but with a new display.

Once again i would really like it to be with a 24h timer-stopwatch and sunrise time, alti lock and some abc upgrades and i got totally dissapointed when i realised that casio made this simply taking paw 1500 making minor upgrades (more cities etc) and changing the display.

Also i think they also made a not good display making smaler digits...

I wish they make a really new abc field watch by:
1. making the best timing features(loud alarm with snooze, 24h stopwatch timer etc)
2. Upgrading the abc functions (with adding alti lock, mean sea level etc)

But as i see that they are not weeling to do this, and they only provide the same again and again i start to see to other competitors

And i totally hate this because i find solar energy to be a real MUST for a field watch...

Thats all my friend

Ευ πράτειν
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Once again i would really like it to be with a 24h timer-stopwatch and sunrise time, alti lock and some abc upgrades and i got totally dissapointed when i realised that casio made this simply taking paw 1500 making minor upgrades (more cities etc) and changing the display.

Also i think they also made a not good display making smaler digits...

I wish they make a really new abc field watch by:
1. making the best timing features(loud alarm with snooze, 24h stopwatch timer etc)
2. Upgrading the abc functions (with adding alti lock, mean sea level etc)

But as i see that they are not weeling to do this, and they only provide the same again and again i start to see to other competitors

And i totally hate this because i find solar energy to be a real MUST for a field watch...
Well, I consider myself to be a very loyal Casio user, but I think that the "other competitors" you mention are probably a good thing. Suunto and Timex make digital watches, it is true, but Casio has really captured a great part of the market for durable digital watches with advanced functionality and complications. So they put out new watches, obviously, and they make improvements, but only when they feel the need to push up demand, or to take advantage of overwhelming existing demand. They do not have to compete, to race against anyone, so the company is not pushing itself to the limit. It does not have to. I really hope that new firms enter the industry, although I would not likely buy their products. Not only will you see Casio striving for new breakthroughs, but prices will fall--unless, of course, firms engage in implicit collusion. This is, unfortunately, what happened with Suunto, in my opinion. Rather than spend money to chase after Casio's market share by making its watches more durable and rugged, Suunto has tried to keep its devices all about sensor accuracy.

Without innovation and change, we have what we have now--an oligopoly, in effect. What's funny is that competition is avoided even within companies. How would a company compete with itself? Well, how many people on this forum own just one watch? Probably not many. Of course, we're not the average consumer, and we're only a small part of the market. But we consume watches far out of proportion to our numbers, as you can see when people post pictures of their 50-watch collections. Casio takes advantage of this by dividing up features, like water resistance, ABC capability, and so on, and trying to keep any given watch from making another totally obsolete. If one watch had all the features, everyone would buy it, and Casio would make a lot of money. But they wouldn't buy five watches, each with its own unique features. As far as I can tell, Casio has this kind of luxury because it is not forced to compete with outside firms, and is able to play off its various series against one another to keep consumption going on.

When competition comes in, if it does, I would guess that Casio will shift to a different model of product management, probably one based on the Bertrand competition model (which holds that the firm with the lowest price will capture the market entirely, if products are identical) rather than the Cournot model, which is the basis for how Casio and Suunto have managed to split up the market without really fighting for consumers. In other words, either people will buy Casio, or they're going next door to buy from the other guy. And when that happens, companies like Casio jump up and get to work, because they know that if they want our money, they have to slash prices and/or deliver the kinds of features you mention, even if they have to invest money for research and development or scrap their cozy little system of splitting the market.
 

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@ Alkibiades
Very solid and interesting post except for the fact that there is no such thing as the "one watch that can do it all" - and there never will be. It would be just too much to cram all the functions Casio is capable of in one watch - too many modes, too much time wasted scrolling through stuff you don't need. There are quite a few Casio models that have modules which are bordering on perfection - but guess what - not many of those are very popular. Some are basically almost unknown - like the DB-E30 for instance which has one of the best modules Casio ever made (it's no ABC of course). Also another reason - people's tastes differ - not everybody wants the "perfect" watch that can do it all. A "complete" Casio ABC with 24 hr timer/STW, sunrise, sunset, moon/tide, good logging, alti-lock, etc. - I don't really think it would sell as well as we WIS think. And it would probably also be too complicated to use without carrying the manual around. I hardly can remember all the functions of my ABCs anyway :-d.

Cheers, Sedi :)
 

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@ Alkibiades
Very solid and interesting post except for the fact that there is no such thing as the "one watch that can do it all" - and there never will be. It would be just too much to cram all the functions Casio is capable of in one watch - too many modes, too much time wasted scrolling through stuff you don't need. There are quite a few Casio models that have modules which are bordering on perfection - but guess what - not many of those are very popular. Some are basically almost unknown - like the DB-E30 for instance which has one of the best modules Casio ever made (it's no ABC of course). Also another reason - people's tastes differ - not everybody wants the "perfect" watch that can do it all. A "complete" Casio ABC with 24 hr timer/STW, sunrise, sunset, moon/tide, good logging, alti-lock, etc. - I don't really think it would sell as well as we WIS think. And it would probably also be too complicated to use without carrying the manual around. I hardly can remember all the functions of my ABCs anyway :-d.

Cheers, Sedi :)
The problem is that such a product, from a perceived price standpoint, will sell for too much money before the market model that Alkibiades suggested goes into place. We as customers have come to expect certain price points for Casio products based on, among others, our own transaction history. This mindset does not apply only to us who are enthusiasts, but also to the general population who mostly just buys one Casio watch. And thus Casio is once again the last to laugh, the one to laugh all the way to the bank while keeping their product management policy.

I think Alkibiades' point is not exclusively about having Casio only having one model -- but rather, it's more to avoid the "jack of all trades, master of none" stigma that sometimes stick to certain multifeatured Casio watches due to their policy of having to make multiple models for multiple segments. The borderlines between these segments are oftentimes nonexistent or at best too blurry :-d I say that's just a poorly disguised excuse to flood the market with their watches, to make sure that everyone would buy at least one Casio watch. I'd prefer to see Casio make a select few lines that can be customized with variations that we can choose for ourselves like xevious posted sometime ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hello, I have new information to share concerning the PRX-2500T-7JF. Casio plans to release the PRX-2500T-7JF exclusively in Japan, beginning either on June 25, 2011, or June 30. The MSRP is ¥93,000, or around U.S. $1160. I have and will include all new information in the first post.




Sources:

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Hello forum

I dont undestand..

I didnt ask for the super watch that makes all and comes cheap. This is unrealistic for multiple reasons.

But hear the facts

I see paw 2500 and i say to my self WOW nice, lets see what this has to say
.
stopwatch 10 hours
timer 1 hour
altimeter the same without any alti lock or mean sea level

tide, moon,world time, recall,alarms,baro,compass, thermometer

and all these EXACTLY SAME as the paw 1500

In my opinion (not theoritical or philosophical opinion) this is a paw 1500 with a new display and minor upgrades(like more cities times etc)

Just saying: Is it so difficult to make stopwatch and timer last for 24 hours? would this make this watch a SUPER watch that does everything

Dont judge me theoritical or defending casio (in fact i love casio, and i wear a casio right now and for the last 2 years, also had a databank which amazed me when i was little kid)

BUT please see the facts!!!

Making stopwatch,timer for 24 hours and adding mean sea level and alti lock will not make this THE ULTIMATE SUPER DUPER WATCH but it will make this something new which will deserve the 300 dollars you give to purchase one

anyway anybody has his opinion, but me personal i prefer to see the facts by themselfs
 

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@bezgeo85
You have a very valid point. Strangely, Casio keeps insisting that some of the Pathfinders are for yacht timing, some are for mountaineering, etc etc, while the difference between them sometimes comes down to... Timers that last more than 60 minutes? Current time in all modules? Snooze alarm? But hey, such "brand attitude" also exists in the mechanical watch world, so who am I to say Casio has no right to do so too. ;-)
 

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@bezgeo85
You have a very valid point. Strangely, Casio keeps insisting that some of the Pathfinders are for yacht timing, some are for mountaineering, etc etc, while the difference between them sometimes comes down to... Timers that last more than 60 minutes? Current time in all modules? Snooze alarm? But hey, such "brand attitude" also exists in the mechanical watch world, so who am I to say Casio has no right to do so too. ;-)
brand attitude.. dont remind me the lack of snooze , 5 alarms but no snooze!! and alarm sound not loud enough!!o|

if they only corrected these... damn i love casio's toughness and solar energy
 

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There are a few more enhancements on the 2500 ....

Firstly, there IS a 24 hour stopwatch on the 2500, while the CDT is still 60 mins.

Some of the other enhancements you probably wouldn't notice at face value, but after owning or playing with the 1500, the 2500 is definitely the better watch. While there is no alti-lock, the sensors have been enhanced from the 2000 series, so the 2500 should have better accuracy than the 1500. Another nice feature the 2500 should have (assuming it is inherited from the 2000) is when you enter Baro mode, the differential indicator will stay present for an hour. The trend graph is very gradual at 24 hours, but the differential reports the real time (5 secs for the first 5 mins, 2 mins after that) ... and the watch will stay in Baro mode for 1 HOUR. You can still read current time, but if you're watching for a quick weather change you can keep the watch in Baro mode and monitor the differential. The 1500 on the other hand only stays in Baro mode for only a few minutes and then switches back to Timekeeping mode. I discovered this useful feature on my 2000 series watch, and while it may seem minor at first, I became quite accustomed to it, and when I got a 1500 later I was very disappointed it didn't do the same thing. I am very hopeful the 2500 has this great feature...


And another interesting bit on pricing - the 1500 on resin strap list price is $350, whereas the 2500 is $300. 2500 is cheaper and better.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
There are a few more enhancements on the 2500 ....

Firstly, there IS a 24 hour stopwatch on the 2500, while the CDT is still 60 mins.

Some of the other enhancements you probably wouldn't notice at face value, but after owning or playing with the 1500, the 2500 is definitely the better watch. While there is no alti-lock, the sensors have been enhanced from the 2000 series, so the 2500 should have better accuracy than the 1500. Another nice feature the 2500 should have (assuming it is inherited from the 2000) is when you enter Baro mode, the differential indicator will stay present for an hour. The trend graph is very gradual at 24 hours, but the differential reports the real time (5 secs for the first 5 mins, 2 mins after that) ... and the watch will stay in Baro mode for 1 HOUR. You can still read current time, but if you're watching for a quick weather change you can keep the watch in Baro mode and monitor the differential. The 1500 on the other hand only stays in Baro mode for only a few minutes and then switches back to Timekeeping mode. I discovered this useful feature on my 2000 series watch, and while it may seem minor at first, I became quite accustomed to it, and when I got a 1500 later I was very disappointed it didn't do the same thing. I am very hopeful the 2500 has this great feature...


And another interesting bit on pricing - the 1500 on resin strap list price is $350, whereas the 2500 is $300. 2500 is cheaper and better.
Out of curiosity, where did you hear that the sensors have been improved?
 

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Out of curiosity, where did you hear that the sensors have been improved?
This is quoted from protrek.jp, under the "Technology" section, it is a general overview of the tech specs for the 2000 & 5000 series from Protrek. Note this text has been generated by an auto-translator:

"Manaslu, PRW-5000 is compact to the size of conventional φ5.8mm φ4.0mm from the pressure sensor. Volume ratio of about 60% significantly improved measurement accuracy while downsizing to achieve something. Has achieved high performance and streamlined out of the way the active scenes."

More info can be found at ƒeƒNƒmƒ�ƒW�[ - PRO TREK | ƒvƒ�ƒgƒŒƒbƒN - CASIO


There is more mention of the 60% improved accuracy under the PRW-2000 product info page too:

"Newly developed pressure sensor
Φ4.0mm from traditional to the smaller size of the pressure sensor φ5.8mm. Volume ratio of about 60% to achieve those downsizing, contributes to streamline the case. In addition, by placing temperature sensors on the back, and carried out at a temperature that allows more accurate correction of the pressure sensor measurements, and improved measurement accuracy over the previous model."


I know the focus on the new sensor is regarding its more compact size and therefore a thinner watch, but its improved accuracy should also be noted, especially since it is mentioned it has been improved over the previous model (the 1500)

The auto-translated page:

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
This is quoted from protrek.jp, under the "Technology" section, it is a general overview of the tech specs for the 2000 & 5000 series from Protrek. Note this text has been generated by an auto-translator:

"Manaslu, PRW-5000 is compact to the size of conventional φ5.8mm φ4.0mm from the pressure sensor. Volume ratio of about 60% significantly improved measurement accuracy while downsizing to achieve something. Has achieved high performance and streamlined out of the way the active scenes."

More info can be found at ƒeƒNƒmƒ�ƒW�[ - PRO TREK | ƒvƒ�ƒgƒŒƒbƒN - CASIO


There is more mention of the 60% improved accuracy under the PRW-2000 product info page too:

"Newly developed pressure sensor
Φ4.0mm from traditional to the smaller size of the pressure sensor φ5.8mm. Volume ratio of about 60% to achieve those downsizing, contributes to streamline the case. In addition, by placing temperature sensors on the back, and carried out at a temperature that allows more accurate correction of the pressure sensor measurements, and improved measurement accuracy over the previous model."


I know the focus on the new sensor is regarding its more compact size and therefore a thinner watch, but its improved accuracy should also be noted, especially since it is mentioned it has been improved over the previous model (the 1500)

The auto-translated page:

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Right you are, then! I've incorporated your info into the outline in the original post. Good to know that we'll be paying for more than just looks...although the PRX-2500T-7JF's looks are superb.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
As I have just added to the outline in the original post, there seem to be small symbols representing alarm status and volume in in the upper-right area of the 2500 series' display. With slight reservations, I would speculate that the 2500 series will allow users to control alarm volume to suit their preferences; I know that some find alarm volume on ProTreks lacking.
 

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Alcibiades

I see that there is indeed some change.

Anyway really nice thread.

I think you should keep it "live" by updating this (as you already do)

And eventually when it comes out and you buy it ( i bet you will) you should be the first one to make a first hand's review.

I think i already see it coming.

Congrats|>

Ευ πρατειν
 

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Whether or not this information influences your decision on a particular Pathfinder or not but figured I'd share this with everyone. The USA release date for the 2500 series Pathfinder is scheduled for September.

-Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Whether or not this information influences your decision on a particular Pathfinder or not but figured I'd share this with everyone. The USA release date for the 2500 series Pathfinder is scheduled for September.

-Chris
Where did you find this?
 
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