[yellowtrace]

I have 2 questions.
1. For those with the imperial, is the quality difference between the beihai 3.0 enough to warrant the price difference? Also, being a Chinese movement, I wouldn't know where to send the watch for servicing. How good is the warranty on the Celadon watches?

2. Is celadonwatches.com a real site? I know maisonceladon.com is real (I think), but I am not sure about the first.

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[MrDagon007]

I was able to examine a few Celadons last week.
General quality impression is excellent!

 

[KtWUS]

1. I don't own a Beihai, only a Celadon so I can't do a direct comparison. However, I'll say that the design of the Imperials are more appealing to me than the Beihais. I also dislike date windows which almost all the Beihais have. As for servicing, I'd probably go through Ben himself (MonsieurXu on this forum). I'm not sure how servicing a Beihai would work. I would guess a good independent watchmaker should be able to handle the movement.

Some of the newer Beihais also have a different movement than the Imperials so look out for that.

2. I would use maisonceladon.com, or pm Ben directly here or on facebook.

Hope that helps!

 

[GUTuna]

1. I don't own a Beihai, only a Celadon so I can't do a direct comparison. However, I'll say that the design of the Imperials are more appealing to me than the Beihais. I also dislike date windows which almost all the Beihais have. As for servicing, I'd probably go through Ben himself (MonsieurXu on this forum). I'm not sure how servicing a Beihai would work. I would guess a good independent watchmaker should be able to handle the movement.

I have two Imperials and have handled a few Beihai's. As KtWUS noted above, the Celadon Imperial is just a more traditional dress watch without the date. The tolerances of the fit definitely are of a higher level than the Beihai, and I like the Beihai! Plus, the finish on the hands and indices are somewhat nicer.

I don't think you're going to go wrong here. I think both are good values. I've never shown an Imperial to a watchmaker that was not impressed with the watch and surprised at it's affordable cost. I don't think you'll feel that you've wasted your money should you choose the Imperial.

 

[yellowtrace]

Thank you for the input. I was looking for a blue dial and came upon the imperial. It is beautiful for sure but I am still mulling over whether it suits me.

Anyway, I've sent an email to the "concierge" and also a PM to MonsieurXu so hopefully I'll hear back in a few days. I guess the baselworld might slow thing down a bit.

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[mxu]

(Ben here (Founder of Maison Celadon), replying under a new username because my old one is having issues.)

Dear Yellowtrace, I’ve personally replied to your enquiry sent to my Concierge last week, but let me also elaborate further here

Let me address your questions in order…

1. I’ll list out the differences between the Celadon Imperial and the Beihai below, but essentially when I launched Maison Celadon in 2013, I specifically set out to design and build a watch superior to any comparable Chinese watch in existence, a watch worthy of the appellation "Made in China with Pride". As to whether the improvements are worth the price difference, that is something that we leave to our owners and potential owners to decide for themselves. So far every single review on here and elsewhere by an owner has been that yes, the Celadon Imperial is worth the premium over the Beijing Beihai, which is itself an excellent watch.

For servicing, that’s easy! Just leave it to us - we will stand by our watches for as long as it takes. We offer a 10 year warranty on all Celadon watches. For servicing, the easiest way has been to send the watch back to Beijing to be fixed, which normally takes 1-3 months depending on what needs to be serviced.

2. Both sites are real and owned by us, but celadonwatches.com is currently under development. We will launch a brand new site to replace and consolidate both very very soon, with a full webstore and marvellous photos

I did receive your order for a Midnight Blue on our webstore, which is pretty much functional now. But no worries, I’ll handle your order personally for you :-!

 

[monsieurxu]

And now, for the improvements of the Celadon Imperial over the Beijing Beihai...

Firstly, this shouldn't be taken as an exhaustive list. It's just a few points that I can think of off the top of my head right now, bearing in mind that I designed the Celadon Imperial in 2013 and improved on it in 2015, and am further improving the Imperial along with our other Celadon watches this year...

The improvements can be generally grouped into two categories - technical & qualitative ("hard factors"), and the Maison Celadon brand itself ("soft factors")

Technical & Qualitative

1. The Celadon Imperial uses a much more complex and intricate dial guilloche, be it the venerable Plum Blossom or the inimitable Peacock, compared to the Beihai.

2. The Imperial uses a far superior B18 movement compared to the Beihai. Celadon watches receive three additional layers of Quality Control over standard Beijing watches. The first round is done by Beijing in the Grand Complications Atelier where their finest movements are crafted and hand-assembled. The second is done by me personally when the watches first arrive with me. And the last round is again done by me personally before each watch leaves to join its new owner, ready to begin a lifetime with him or her.

Going forward, all Celadon watches will receive FOUR layers of QC above standard Beijing watches, the additional layer done by our new Director of Quality Control, a watchmaker with three decades of experience and who has built and assembled his own self-designed tourbillon.

Also, going forward, we will order double the number of movements required and choose the best of them for use in our watches. So for example, for the 50 watches of the Yue Fei First Series launching next month, we have ordered 100 movements from Beijing, which are all already at the zenith of what Beijing produces. Our Director of QC is familiar with the heads of all Beijing watch production departments, and ensures that we get the very finest Beijing movements at quality grading levels that exceed their own.

Just as the Beihai uses a superior graded B18 movement when compared to the Zhufeng, so does the Imperial use a far, far superior graded B18 movement compared to the Beihai.

We call these Celadon-Grade movements. Movements that bear the Celadon Seal, the mark of quality denoting Made in China with Pride.

Think of it like a wine vintage, the same grapes are used every year but only in exceptional vintages are the grapes used in a winery's top wine. Maison Celadon's watches are, dare I say, only declared in exceptional vintages

Why do we do this? Why do we bother, you might ask? Well from the very beginning of founding Maison Celadon, I made it my unswerving mission and sacred duty to build a modern Chinese luxury brand of global renown, and produce some of the finest watches made anywhere, not just in China. Watches that are unequivocally first class from any perspective you look at them.

3. The Imperial, since the First Series in 2013, has used a metal spacer rather than the plastic spacer in the Beihai.

4. Artisanal (done by tweezer and tray and a craftsman's eye, rather than en masse in an industrial oven) heat-blued steel hands are offered and used on our Blanc de Chine (Celadon Imperial) and Titanium (Celadon Yue Fei) dials. The Beihai does not offer the option of blued steel hands.

5. The packaging of the Celadon Imperial is specifically custom-designed for it, by me personally. We call it the Celadon Chariot because it is designed to be lithe and sleek, light and compact, but exceptionally high-quality with no compromises, just like a Ming dynasty horseshoe hunting chair. I designed it particularly for travel, and to protect the Imperial on its journeys overseas, and to function as a mobile display stand with its wings outstretched. It is red nappa leather with a genuine leather suede lining, and gold lettering throughout. The case fits the Imperial so well that you can turn it upside down and the Imperial will not fall out, being held only by the excellent fit of the high-grade protective foam in the case and nothing else. I travel often with eight of these Chariots in my carry-on suitcase, and they are extremely handy and practical, and of course, beautiful.

6. Every Celadon watch is accompanied by high-quality bespoke handmade stationery. We commissioned a local craftsman to letterpress thick high-quality paper with a vintage letterpress machine from the 1940s, with a special custom design. This includes the handwritten letter written and signed by me personally (with a vintage fountain pen from my collection spanning the 1930s to the 1970s no less), the Maison Celadon Certificate of Authenticity, the envelope with the Celadon Seal in royal blue, and the card explaining how purchasing a Celadon watch aids in the cause of a local dog shelter (I’ll explain more on this below).

7. I'm not sure how long Beijing's warranty is for their watches, or how they handle servicing now that they are under Fiyta and don't deal with the public. But as for us at Maison Celadon, we offer a global 10 year warranty on all our watches, and stand behind any watch that carries the Celadon Seal, for as long as it takes.


The Maison Celadon brand

1. The Imperial is produced in a series of 50 watches per dial design. The first Beihai was produced in 2008 pieces, and the current Beihai models are no longer limited and are produced in the thousands. Beyond the completely different level of exclusivity, producing in such a small series (the mainstream brands call a series of 500 watches a limited edition, as a point of comparison) means that the high cost of our bespoke and specially-designed components have fewer watches to be amortized upon.

2. I invested a tremendous amount of thought, time, effort and sweat into the design of every Celadon Imperial dial variant, not just in what design elements to include, but also in what to exclude. The Yue Fei, even more so - as you can see it has taken us over 4 years to bring the first Chinese luxury sports watch to fruition, but how worth it that wait has been! I think that the designs of Maison Celadon have a worthy premium and value attached to them. Though a subtle, elegant dress watch, the Celadon Imperial is not dull - its innate charm is tempered and inspired by the grand tradition of vintage Chinese watches so beloved on this forum, as you can see from my past threads dealing specifically on this subject (textured dials etc). The Imperial has a myriad of subtle design influences from China's horological past - for example the Celadon Seal is shaped like the a tripod cauldron 鼎 as well as the Chinese character for "mountain", connoting immutable power and immovable solidity. Having a logo that represented the province of origin and a symbol of place, was a design trait of vintage Chinese watches (VCMs). The elegant calligraphic Chinese characters at the bottom of the dial, and the heartwarming Chinese calligraphic poem inscribed on the movement, also rekindle the design tradition of VCMs. And last but certainly not the least, the use of distinctively Chinese guilloche styles not seen since the 1970s, refined for the 21st century, whether it be the elegant Plum Blossom or the magnificent Peacock, is one of the clearest identifiers of a Celadon Imperial and a Chinese luxury watch.

In essence, a tightly-defined and unified brand identity is what distinguishes Maison Celadon from other young watch brands.

3. Whereas the dial design of the Beihai is derivative of a Patek Philippe model, every single Celadon design is absolutely original or inspired by the grand tradition of vintage Chinese watches, and five millennia of Chinese culture and history.

4. The purchase process to acquire a Celadon watch is designed to be easier and better than that of any other brand. We are still improving on this process, as we balance growing in scale and prominence as a brand with the desire to maintain an intimate relationship with every Celadon Connoisseur, but this is the ideal that we pursue and our committed goal.

5. The retail price of the Beihai is much higher than 400 or so USD, being around 4000 RMB last I recall. Of course, you cannot compare purchasing a Beihai from a grey market seller, with ordering an Imperial directly from the brand itself.

6. We host C4 events (Celadon Connoisseurs Circle Cocktails) globally and frequently to meet and bond with our watch owners, and for our watch owners to get to know each other and have an awesome time together. These events will grow in frequency, variety, and fun going forward this year.

7. We are expanding our list of collaborations with other established high-end and luxury brands in various industries, such as luxury supercar brands and yacht and private jet manufacturers, as well as top-tier champagne houses and luxury resorts. This, in symphony with another of my endeavours, the caviar brand Bijoux Caviar, will raise the prestige and brand equity of Maison Celadon further and further into the stratosphere.

8. I have assiduously built and guarded the brand value of Maison Celadon over the past four years since our founding. A practical result of this can be seen in the two Celadon Imperials that came up for sale in recent memory - both sold within 85% of their purchase price. This is a feat that the luxury Swiss houses would find difficult to match, let alone the high-end independents who sell their watches at permanent half-off as a matter of course.

9. As Celadon grows, we have re-invested significantly in every area where our brand can improve, from production quality to marketing to client service to servicing infrastructure to C4 events. The ultimate aim is to not just build a watch brand, but to create a true Chinese luxury brand of global prominence. We are in this for the long haul. We are building a legacy, and making history.

10. Apart from rehabilitating the perception of Chinese products, and introducing the world to true Chinese craftsmanship, another cause near and dear to my heart is helping abandoned and homeless dogs. Towards that end, since 2015 at the end of every year we have bought a large batch of calendars from a little local shelter called Gentle Paws, Every Celadon watch that joins its new owner is accompanied with one of these calendars, with photos of smiling shelter dogs and a message of love for every month of the year. I hope that these calendars bless you all and warm your hearts for each coming year. I specifically chose to help the tiniest of the dog shelters I know, as our help there, however small, can make the greatest difference. As raising money by selling these calendars is the primary way that Gentle Paws supports its dogs and its shelter rental, every Celadon Connoisseur has played a direct role in helping to care for these dear dogs, by purchasing a Celadon watch. We also try our best to support Gentle Paws with publicity as far as possible, by inviting them and their dogs to our C4 events for example. Our contribution is still relatively small for now, but whatever help we all can offer makes a direct difference to the lives of these dogs and the exceptional individuals who care for them in spite of all the difficulties involved. And so I thank you friends, on behalf of them.



When all is said and done, by acquiring a Celadon watch or supporting us in spirit, you are in fact sharing a little in my personal journey. You are supporting the underdog (in some ways literally), and you are helping me make a difference, and build something of lasting value that we can all be proud of.

Though as of this year we are no longer a one man show, we’re still a very small brand with a lot of exciting promise ahead of us. We’re not perfect, but we are honest, and genuine, and sincere, and you will always have my very best work, friends.

In summary, I’m attaching a few links to reviews of Celadon watches on WUS. Of course there’re many more, including many reviews in French and German, if you do a quick search online…

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/celadon-imperial-impressions-969877.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/yamcirr-yet-another-maison-celadon-red-imperial-review-979264.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/celadon-imperial-review-3100658.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/imperial-red-celadon-imperial-amchpr-975091.html

And if I might quote Time On My Hands -
"The elephant in the room is to compare the Beihai 3 to the Celadon Imperial for value. Don't. They share a lot of hardware, but with quality assurance, owners' community, and connection to the head man, the Celadon's higher price represents value that a standard factory Beihai cannot attain. Plus no annoying date window on monsierxu's watches.”

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/beijing-beihai-3-0-red-3097178.html

 

[Davido22]

I feel Ben Chee of House of Celadon is not a respectable watch maker. People have been waiting two years for the Yue FEI dress driver, makes Kickstarter look Supreme and while the Imperial is a great timepiece, the Yue FEI has poor legibility legibility, which is paramount in a dive watch. I mean fumé crystal, no AR coating and ring up my funds for 24 months is simply beyond crazy.

 

[monsieurxu]

Hi David,

I respect your opinion on the legibility but I have to respectfully disagree. Shown below are photos of the Obsidian Yue Fei which you own and two reviews by Worn and Wound and Timebum. There's no doubt that the Yue Fei leans more towards the elegant side of the sports watch spectrum rather than the tool side, but I have worn both colours of the Yue Fei in all sorts of conditions around the world, and they have never failed me in terms of practicality.

As for tying up your funds, you ordered your watch during our pre-order campaign on 29 January 2018 and we delivered it to you on 19 September 2018. I know you are still waiting on the leather travel case which will be delivered next month, but the lengthy delay was caused by an ownership change at our leather case supplier and resulting issues with quality. We had one particularly problematic supplier which we've since eliminated and replaced, but he was the cause of many long delays and issues with quality, which is why I kept rejecting their output and insisted they be improved. I can't bring myself to deliver a watch that is less than what I expect of my brand. As for the wait, well I'm truly sorry about that, but these will never happen again as I have rectified all issues and improved our production process significantly.

In any case I'm happy to hear that you are pleased with the two Imperials that you own. I don't claim to be perfect but I do continuously try to improve my watches and my customer service as much as I can.

https://wornandwound.com/review/hands-on-maison-celadon-yue-fei-diver/

Maison Celadon Yue Fei | The Time Bum

 

[Davido22]

Those hands are tiny and there's no AR I believe. The contract is not refundable and when I told Ben I wanted to change colors he went into a big fit about the condition of my watch which I only got by going postal. He showed no intention to help me, just value the price he would Clcharge for exchange.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

Those hands are tiny and there's no AR I believe. The contract is not refundable and when I told Ben I wanted to change colors he went into a big fit about the condition of my watch which I only got by going postal. He showed no intention to help me, just value the price he would Clcharge for exchange.

First, the hands size looks amazing on this watch. They are a perfect size.
Second, where does it state on the website that this watch has AR coating? (I cannot find that statement anywhere)

Third, you asked for a certain color watch when you made your purchase.
Did you read this statement on the website?:
- Colour change subsequent to payment is subject to availability
(Do you understand what that means?)

Fourth, the fact that you admit that you had to "go postal" speaks volumes about you.
Lastly, I honestly feel sorry for Ben after reading your posts.

 

[Davido22]

My actions have been based on Ben's promises. I do not go postal in a vacuum. Brn had the watches and not released them. I evaluated the watch and would never dive with it. The end.

 

[Monkey_like_watch]

Delete

 

[Chascomm]

The end.

Yeah, good idea.

You've stated your concerns, Ben has replied. I strongly suggest that this difference of opinion move to somewhere else before it turns ugly.

 

[Davido22]

Posted March 28, 2019:

I know you are still waiting on the leather travel case which will be delivered next month, but the lengthy delay was caused by an ownership change at our leather case supplier and resulting issues with quality. We had one particularly problematic supplier which we've since eliminated and replaced, but he was the cause of many long delays and issues with quality, which is why I kept rejecting their output and insisted they be improved. I can't bring myself to deliver a watch that is less than what I expect of my brand. As for the wait, well I'm truly sorry about that, but these will never happen again as I have rectified all issues and improved our production process significantly.

TICK, Tick, 18 months and counting.