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Discussion Starter #1
I've been trying to unravel the relationship between Certina, Edox and Technos. As founding associates of The General Watch Co (ASUAG) in 1970 it's clear that they would have been able to share suppliers and patents. Edox and Technos were reorganized under joint management in 1977, with Certina coming under the same umbrella, in 1980. It's clear that the Certina DS2 PH200M Diver has the same case as the Technos Sky Diver 250. The Edox Delphin Diver looks the same but it? I know that the Certina Super DS2 500 and 1000 also have Technos Sky Diver equivalents. There is an Edox Sky Diver 250 that looks different from my Technos Sky Diver 250 but there were a least 4 case variations for the PH200M so it might be a variation I'm not as familiar with. The real head scratcher, for me, is the the relationship between the Edox Delphin and the Certina DS2 they look the same but sometimes the dimensions match and sometimes the Delphin is slightly smaller. Does anyone know if they shared cases? I know that at least early in their production runs they were different because the Delphin was introduced in 1961 and the DS2 in 1968. Certina had a history of changing cases without changing model names so it wouldn't be unprecedented for the combined companies to do the same.
 

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I thought General was created WAY before 1970. Volume 1 of Bestfit (pre 1969 IRC) lists dozens of General calibres. It also shows the General Cartouche as the same as Helvetia who made watches (at least) as early as the 1940s

When I do a little more digging, I come up with:
Louis Brandt, the one who's (main) company later became known as "Omega" (in
1903) founded the "General Watch Company" in 1880. This later became known as
Helvetia. However, I was always under the impression that Helvetia had little
if anything to do per se with Omega - the two should be independent companies.
As such, the name Omega when used in conjunction with the eBay watch is a
little misleading.
Hartmut Richter on
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=1872501#post1872501

and
1880: Foundation of La Generale Watch Co / General Watch Co by the company Louis Brandt & Fils (Omega) for manufacturing cylinder watches.
1885: Transfer of the trade mark Helvertia from Louis Brandt & Fils to the new La Generale Watch Co.
1968: Aquisition of the movement factory Helvetia SA in Reconvilier by the SGT (Societe des Garde-Temps SA). The watch factory Montres Helvetia SA in Bienne remained independent.
1970: Aquisition of the Montres Helvetia SA by the ASUAG (Allgemeine Schweizerische Uhrenindustrie AG).
Although founded to produce cylinder watches, the genuine Helvertia calibres are all lever movements of enhanced quality.
First only self designed calibres were produced, but later also movements from AS and ETA were upgraded.
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Helvetia_000
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Certina/Technos Sky Diver 1000m

pilotswatch you sure have been busy hear's a picture of my Technos Sky Diver 250 and an Edox Delphin Diver both obviously using the Certina PH200M DS2 case
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Certina/Technos Sky Diver 1000m

This is a Sky Diver based on an Edox Case with a picture of a Technos that uses the same case without the bezel
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A little more information I've gathered. Certina was a very popular watch in the Scandinavian countries and to a lesser extent Germany and Italy. Technos was very strong in Japan and Brazil and to a lesser extent the rest of Asia and South America. I haven't been able to find a definitive statement on were Edox was strong but circumstantial evidence points to Asia and South America. A Mexican company by the name Haste seems to have used Edox as a supplier for watches sold under that brand name. The distribution pattern may explain way ASAUG sold off Edox and Technos and retained Certina.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just an update with some answers. My watchmaker has my Edox Delphin and my Certina DS2, externally the cases are similar but there is nothing in common internally, they are completly different cases.
 

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Hi!

Just some more info.
The General Watch Co. existed for decades as producer of movements and watches(Helvetia). It was founded in 1880 in Biel/Bienne by Louis Brandt & Fils(= Omega), the brandname Helvetia was registered in 1885.
In 1968, the company, together with the movement production, was taken over by the SGT(Societe des Garde-Temps SA), the watch production became independant under the name Montres Helvetia SA and moved on for a few years.
The SGT came to the ASUAG in 1970 and the ASUAG used the GWC, still existing as a company, just as holding for several watch companies: Rado, Technos, Mido, Longines, Certina and Edox.
So you find a lot of cooperation inbetween these companies under the roof of the GWC in the 1970s. I´m most familiar with the Rado-related ones: Rado DiaStar watches had been produced also for Certina and Mido with their additional names on the dial. Technos used the same hardmetal case technology(but different cases) under the model name "Borazon". Rado used Longines movements in min. one model. And an automatic Chronograph with Valjoux 7750 existed with the same case and nearly the same dial design as Rado, Mido, Certina, Longines and Technos(Rado with a 25 jw-7750, the other ones with a 17-jw.-version).
Inner the GWC, Technos came under the roof of the Montres Edox SA in 1977, Certina followed in 1980.
1982, the Technos company, traditionally strong in the markets of Japan and Brazil, was sold to the Japanese importer, Heiwado & Co, who sold it 1995 to the former importer in Brazil - today it´s the Technos Relógios S.A. and market leader in Brazil(using Citizen movements).
1983, Edox was sold to Victor Strambini/Montres Vista in Genevez, Switzerland.
Certina, together with Rado, Longines and Mido stayed inner the ASUAG, which merged 1983 with the SSIH to the SMH, today´s Swatch Group.
 

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Here's a list of all the General Watch Co Brands. From Wikipedia
Afiliated Watch Brands & Companies
Not sure how much I believe that list, but I guess it all depends on what 'affiliated' means.

For example, Certina and Roamer (and Tissot) had 'memorandums of understanding' with each other for many many years (maybe from the 1930s through definitely the 1950s, and again in the late 1960s) but no ownership. Only during the bankruptcy of the mid-late 1970s did Roamer pass briefly through ASUAG's hands (2 years - as did many others), before becoming independent again. I wouldn't base any formal affiliation on the act of basically passing through the 'reciever's' hands so to speak.
 

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This list(thanx, nsmike!) is for the 1970s/beginning 1980s only, when the only function of the GWC had been to be an ASUAG holding. And indeed, some companies were under that roof only for a short time.
 

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Pretty informative thread, now I will have to look for a skydiver watch
 

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813.JPG This is a very interesting thread. Here is a pic of my Technos Kaiser Signal watch. Above the 6 hour marker is a small round window that flashes an wheel driven mechanical red tipped propeller. I have always wondered who made the movement and came up with the idea? Did other watch companies use this idea in another brand? Say, Certina and Edox? 31
 

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if it might help some early stages information for Certina.As you might know it's born as Kurth Freres' brand Grana.I am not educated enough about Technos and Edox though. Kurth Freres manufactures its own movements aka inhouse calibers. They have some ownership relation with Glycine Watches SA from late 30's to 1942. In 1942 Glycine's and Kurth Freres' movement manufacturing ateliers/factories are aquired by ASUAG, which lead Glycine and ' from Grana to Certina ' transformed brands use more generic movements after that time.As for the cases, like many of the brands 'Piquerez' was the guy in the 60s and 70's. But I know that Glycine switched to ' Piquerez ' from ' Schmitz Freres '. I think these along with the one you are spelling were the pioneers in casing technology in those years.
 
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