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The 6r15 in my recently acquired sarb035 was keeping poor time. By that i mean the accuracy (+/- deviation per day) varies alittle from day to day even in the same position :-(. Forgot the term for that problem iso something? Anyway bought the watch from seiya just over a month ago now so the movement should be well worn in. Now i gotta admit im not sure if it is acutally mechanically damaged or not from poor handling. I say this because the accuracy doesnt change that much, for instance the first 24hrs dial up it would lose 9 seconds a day and second 24hrs it would lose 7 seconds a day. BTW it's losing around 20 seconds a day in almost all other positions including 12 hours on the wrist. This is the latest accuracy figures and falling out of seiko's claimed accuracy margins which is already wide. When i first got it i timed it about -12secs/day :roll:

This is bothering me since it was close to 500 bucks. So i decided to regulate it myself today (have regulated nearly all my cheaper mechanicals to great accuracies). When i opened the caseback carefully, i found the rubber seal was far too big for the size of the case, as in the circumference was about 3mm longer than that of the case threading :-x. Also noticed that the case back has "case china" printed on it where people cant see (except for the ones who open them up) and "made in japan" outside. Im no conspiracy theorist but im willing to bet good money that almost all these seiko watches and movements cept for them GS are partially or entirely made/ assembled in china or some other asian country. They can legally print the made in japan because of japanese laws which state as long as the machinery is japanese, whatever product made wherever by whoever can legally wear the "made in japan" sticker even if it had nothing to do with japan cept for maybe design and engineering parts. This is also true for all the 5 sports etc which have K and J variants. I believe none of those are made in japan in the literal sense. To be honest i dont care where the watch is made really. Just wanted to point this out and see if anyone else who owns a 6r15 has opened theirs up.

I REALLY hope the accuracy isnt the result of mechanical damage but just poor regulating.
 

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Interesting. I've never opened mine up, but would think with all the members here and abroad someone else would have noticed this...

So were you able to more accurately regulate it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Interesting. I've never opened mine up, but would think with all the members here and abroad someone else would have noticed this...

So were you able to more accurately regulate it?
Regulated now but we'll see how well in a few days. It also surprised me how no one's ever brought this up but probably the result of a small number of owners coupled with an understandable reluctance to open a perfectly fine watch. Keep in mind that the model and the movement is relatively new.

Bummer, but willing to bet the gasket streched out when you removed the back.

Regards,

Ren
Thanks for pointing that out. Having had a closer look at where the gasket is placed, i think thats exactly what happened. bummer aye. Was easily fitted back though cant gaurantee WR which doesnt matter that much for this watch tbh.
 

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I'm not surprised. Made in Japan is a legal term and not a statement of the obvious.
nhoJ, do you have a source for this, or is this based on experience? I've been trying to read up on this and never really found any authoritative source on the matter.

Cheers! :-!
 

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i am really surprised!!:-s

it never occur to me that the JDM is cased outside japan.:-s:-s

if you say it for the normal run-of-mill seiko like the skx007, i can understand.

but the 6r15 is supposedly a "higher tier" seiko mech and the premium in this case does not justify.

i know there were many discussions over SKX007 and SKX007J etc but the price differential for the range is not big.

really bummer big time for me :rodekaart
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i am really surprised!!:-s

it never occur to me that the JDM is cased outside japan.:-s:-s

if you say it for the normal run-of-mill seiko like the skx007, i can understand.

but the 6r15 is supposedly a "higher tier" seiko mech and the premium in this case does not justify.

i know there were many discussions over SKX007 and SKX007J etc but the price differential for the range is not big.

really bummer big time for me :rodekaart
Well in the case of the sarb035 i'd say the premium is justified and then some. The case finish and feel is beyond any 7s26, attention to detail and bracelet quality is also a level above. I would say the sarb's fit & finish and overall refinement is comparable if not better than some cheaper pieces from longines/tag/tissot selling for around $1000 or more. You can really appreciate the thought and design put into this watch when you hold and wear it. From what i've heard, the 6r15 is usually a decent performer in terms of accuracy and consistency. And this movement is also made in singapore (or maybe only made in singapore who knows). The point is I dont feel it matters where or who made it provided it does its job well enough. In this particular case it doesnt.

I wonder if anyone can confirm where these watches and movements are assembled. Some clarification would be great :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
nhoJ, do you have a source for this, or is this based on experience? I've been trying to read up on this and never really found any authoritative source on the matter.

Cheers! :-!
I remember reading that somewhere but no source :-(
The "made in japan" has to do with some countries requiring manufacturers to print the country of origin for legal reasons. I think one of those might be Saudi Arabia. So seiko printed the made in japan and gave those variants a J designation just so they can sell in these countries even though the watches are likely to have originated from the same factory outside japan but made with japanese equipment thus allowing the sticker to satisfy the laws of both countries. Why they dont bother writing made in japan on all their watches is beyond me. Maybe some are actually assembled by non-japanese equipment. Just a guess.
 

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This is disappointing. The well known purveyors of JDM watces often state on their sites that specific watches are made in Japan.

I agree, the quality of the Sumo, for example, leagues above an SKX007. So I don't mind where it is made if the quality is right.

But I don't want to pay Made in Japan prices for a watch made in China. I want to pay Made in China prices.

My Sea-Gull M222S is froma Chinese brand, and proudly saes "China Made" on the dial. The quality is absolutely superb (apart from the movement finishing which is average), not quite as good as the Sumo but not that far off. And much better than a Monster.

It can be had for US$150.

A Sumo (or other nice watch with a basic movement) made in Chna shouldn't be US$550.

I've never taken the back of my Sumo (I don't want to mess with the seal) but I've had the back off my Samurai. I don't remember seeing anything about China in there, but then I wasn'treally looking for it.

This warrants further investigation!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This is disappointing. The well known purveyors of JDM watces often state on their sites that specific watches are made in Japan.

I agree, the quality of the Sumo, for example, leagues above an SKX007. So I don't mind where it is made if the quality is right.

But I don't want to pay Made in Japan prices for a watch made in China. I want to pay Made in China prices.

My Sea-Gull M222S is froma Chinese brand, and proudly saes "China Made" on the dial. The quality is absolutely superb (apart from the movement finishing which is average), not quite as good as the Sumo but not that far off. And much better than a Monster.

It can be had for US$150.

A Sumo (or other nice watch with a basic movement) made in Chna shouldn't be US$550.


This warrants further investigation!
Totally agree |>

I own several chinese mechanicals all under $300. The nicest is a sea-gull st-19 chrono i got from cnmark. Their build isnt as great as the sarb035 but this is reflected in the price. Just to confirm, the print on the caseback inside the movement says "seiko timecorp WP China case". Still a beautiful watch and i managed to get it down to an overall +1 sec/day on wrist :). Just have to see if it holds now.
 

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Just to confirm, the print on the caseback inside the movement says "seiko timecorp WP China case".
Hmm...

Maybe the case is produced in China (to what stage of finishing I don't know) and then the watch is assembled (and finished if necesary) in Japan?

That would be fine with me - lots of watchmakers source cases from China.

And really, a big machine can press blanks and machine metal in Morrocco or the North Pole, for all I care.
 

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Yes the case is made in China. Big whoop. Thought that was common knowledge. You'll find chinese cases on thousand+ dollar watches.

Bracelets too I'm betting.
 

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I'm not surprised. Made in Japan is a legal term and not a statement of the obvious.
nhoJ, do you have a source for this, or is this based on experience? I've been trying to read up on this and never really found any authoritative source on the matter.

Cheers! :-!
Well, all "Made in XXX" is defined legally for all countries, and every country has a different defination. I'm sure we all know what is required for Swiss Made labeling. Below is the requirement for Made in USA labeling which I pulled from wiki:

It will not be considered a deceptive practice for a marketer to make an unqualified U.S. origin claim if, at the time it makes the claim, the marketer possesses and relies upon competent and reliable evidence that: (1) U.S. manufacturing costs constitute 75% of the total manufacturing costs for the product; and (2) the product was last substantially transformed in the United States.
Now like all laws, there are loop holes. For instance many American companies manufacture in Puerto Rico or some other US territory where the labor is cheaper than mainland. Likewise you can dance around the percent of the total cost on the basis of the cost of your labor is simply more expensive on the mainland than other places to do the same job. Finally substantial transformation seems loosely defined to me.

I have not been able to find what the legal requirement is for Made in Japan specifically. There was some posts here a while ago from someone familiar with Japan importing laws and this person commented that a Japanese facility operating to Japan quality standards in any other country was enough to constitute Made in Japan labeling.
 

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In Japan, watches sold there must show the following information on the case back:

Country of manufacture

And if casing occurs in a different country other than the country of origin.

If you pay attention, you'll see some JDM Seikos, like the Power Design Solar Radio Controlled Digital watches, that clearly state in the caseback: "Cased in China".

In the case of some SARBs, it is possible that the case itself is made in china but the actual "casing" still takes place in Japan.

On the other hand, I do not understand what is the big deal about some of these products made in China. Our vaunted Apple Macs and iPods are made in China, not Cupertino, California!

I have had expensive Citizens whose very well made bracelets read "Made in China".

I would like to pair any SARB against a comparable Swiss watch and see which one comes ahead in value, fit and finish. I suspect the SARBs will always win that contest, hands down.
 

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Send the watch back to Seiya and politely request an exchange/refund.

The 6r15 in my recently acquired sarb035 was keeping poor time. By that i mean the accuracy (+/- deviation per day) varies alittle from day to day even in the same position :-(. Forgot the term for that problem iso something? Anyway bought the watch from seiya just over a month ago now so the movement should be well worn in. Now i gotta admit im not sure if it is acutally mechanically damaged or not from poor handling. I say this because the accuracy doesnt change that much, for instance the first 24hrs dial up it would lose 9 seconds a day and second 24hrs it would lose 7 seconds a day. BTW it's losing around 20 seconds a day in almost all other positions including 12 hours on the wrist. This is the latest accuracy figures and falling out of seiko's claimed accuracy margins which is already wide. When i first got it i timed it about -12secs/day :roll:

This is bothering me since it was close to 500 bucks. So i decided to regulate it myself today (have regulated nearly all my cheaper mechanicals to great accuracies). When i opened the caseback carefully, i found the rubber seal was far too big for the size of the case, as in the circumference was about 3mm longer than that of the case threading :-x. Also noticed that the case back has "case china" printed on it where people cant see (except for the ones who open them up) and "made in japan" outside. Im no conspiracy theorist but im willing to bet good money that almost all these seiko watches and movements cept for them GS are partially or entirely made/ assembled in china or some other asian country. They can legally print the made in japan because of japanese laws which state as long as the machinery is japanese, whatever product made wherever by whoever can legally wear the "made in japan" sticker even if it had nothing to do with japan cept for maybe design and engineering parts. This is also true for all the 5 sports etc which have K and J variants. I believe none of those are made in japan in the literal sense. To be honest i dont care where the watch is made really. Just wanted to point this out and see if anyone else who owns a 6r15 has opened theirs up.

I REALLY hope the accuracy isnt the result of mechanical damage but just poor regulating.
 

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Well if this is really true then whatever the reason is, I am disappointed. :think: Everybody is paying extra because it's JDM. That's the fact. That doesn't mean that I won't be buying made in china watches but the point is why would I pay extra for something made in china wondering it's 100% made in japan. Seiko pls don't ruin my respect on JDM Seikos. <|
 

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Well if this is really true then whatever the reason is, I am disappointed. :think: Everybody is paying extra because it's JDM. That's the fact. That doesn't mean that I won't be buying made in china watches but the point is why would I pay extra for something made in china wondering it's 100% made in japan. Seiko pls don't ruin my respect on JDM Seikos. <|
What extra are you paying for?

These SARBs are a bargain!

Do you want to pay USD $1,000 for a SARB033?:think:

This thread is bordering on the ridiculous.o|
 

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If the watch was 100% made in Japan you would be paying extra, and not the other way around. Would you care to guess how much would we pay for a Sumo if it was made in Switzerland?
 
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