[Morris Minor]

The black day/ date wheels look cool, and were certainly the original type. I believe white wheels were also original, but I have not got definitive evidence, so for the time being we can't be absolutely sure....

Great to see the pics of your work 31j, and a rare treat to see restoration work in progress on 8110's!!

Stephen

 

[31 Jewels]

The black day/ date wheels look cool, and were certainly the original type. I believe white wheels were also original, but I have not got definitive evidence, so for the time being we can't be absolutely sure....

Great to see the pics of your work 31j, and a rare treat to see restoration work in progress on 8110's!!

Stephen

Thank you! These restos take alot of hours to do like this. 31

 

[31 Jewels]

These are 8110a's at their best. I polished the rotor and heat treated the screws gold on the all bridges. In the sun light you can see the rotor is gold too. I considered a glass case back as i know how to make one. I want to check if a 67-9054 case back will screw on. If it does and time permits i'll give it a go. Next stop are dials and cases. Stay tuned, 31

 

[Morris Minor]

Nice work 31j - how is the gold colour achieved, along with heat of course? And btw, I think the 67-9054 case back is a fair bit bigger than the 'bullhead' one.

Cheers,
Stephen

 

[tanwill]

Hi 31, can you comment the Bullhead case is stainless steel or chrome plated ?

 

[Morris Minor]

Hi Tanwill - just noticed your question for 31j. Only the bullhead with the octagonal case is stainless steel. The rest were 'base metal', a kind of nickel alloy I think. They also gold plated one model, and black coated another, none were chrome plated. One confusing thing is that Citizen coded the base metal ones as 'SSB', which would normally mean stainless steel with black bezel!

Stephen

 

[31 Jewels]

Here is V's case and pushers after polishing. I hand polish each pusher by hand and use water proofing grease on the "O" rings to ensure a smooth action. The springs are also cleaned and you will notice on the radico how dirty they were. Its been asked on many different occasions and in other Citizen threads as well as this one on what alloy these cases are made out of. I didnt have any here at the shop to comment but after having these 2 i can add my 2 cents. I can say that the octagon are all stainless for sure and its signed on the case back. The non octagon cases, at least these 2 here being restored are solid nickel. I louped the spring bar holes to make sure they are not brass with chrome plating. These 2 are solid nickel. As far as whats refered to the base metal top on the case back, in my opinion it appears Citizen is refering to the bezels. Which are very soft metal and appears to be either nickel, stainless steel or aluminum. There are alot of these Bull Heads around and V has sent me his NOS Bull Head to compare. I have 3 Bulls here now and i'm planning to weigh the cases complete and see if there is a difference as far as metal content. These 2 older Bulls feel heavier compared to the NOS repo. I will post the weight results in a couple days. Stay Tuned, 31

 

[31 Jewels]

This is V's dial after repair of the dials outer edge. What i like about his dial is the sub dials have faded to a almost chocolate color. Short of the edge and lume repair on the 2 and the 4 hour markers, its pristine and ready for the movement and hands.

 

[31 Jewels]

This is V's refinished case, bracelet and bezel. This is also his case and dial after the hands have been cleaned in the 3rd pic. Its now time to set the dial and hands on the movement. The bezel took alot of time to refinish. I have experimented with enamel before on watch parts but have to say i think that the originals were powder coated from the factory. Its a very touchy part to work with because its so soft a metal, and very difficult to get the original paint off so that it could be restored. None the less, i have yet to see a Bull Head that was refinished like this. It looks really nice fully polished, and has a much richer "high end look."

 

[tanwill]

Hi 31, thanks for the comment.
its what i thought too. I used to have 11 pcs of these bullhead.
Had polished some without revealing any base metal.
Had also hand sanding one case (to rid some dent) and has not seen any base metal too.
was a little confuse on the "base metal" stated at the back case.

Bezel look black painted or gold plate on some model.
Was wondering if thr base metal was referring to the bezel instead.

Thanks again for clearing my long time doubts.

View attachment 698589 Here is V's case and pushers after polishing. I hand polish each pusher by hand and use water proofing grease on the "O" rings to ensure a smooth action. The springs are also cleaned and you will notice on the radico how dirty they were. Its been asked on many different occasions and in other Citizen threads as well as this one on what alloy these cases are made out of. I didnt have any here at the shop to comment but after having these 2 i can add my 2 cents. I can say that the octagon are all stainless for sure and its signed on the case back. The non octagon cases, at least these 2 here being restored are solid nickel. I louped the spring bar holes to make sure they are not brass with chrome plating. These 2 are solid nickel. As far as whats refered to the base metal top on the case back, in my opinion it appears Citizen is refering to the bezels. Which are very soft metal and appears to be either nickel, stainless steel or aluminum. There are alot of these Bull Heads around and V has sent me his NOS Bull Head to compare. I have 3 Bulls here now and i'm planning to weigh the cases complete and see if there is a difference as far as metal content. These 2 older Bulls feel heavier compared to the NOS repo. I will post the weight results in a couple days. Stay Tuned, 31

 

[31 Jewels]

Your welcome Tanwill, i can't speak for every single one out there though. Alot of repos are being sold. I looked at the one V sent me and it doesnt seem the same as the originals. It does have an 8110a in it. Its scratched and appears that the movements are originals, but all the rest of the parts are reproduced. The crown, pushers,case,bracelet and definately the dials all seem not as nice quality. I mean as far as being made out of stainless steel with the exception of the caseback . I weighed the Bull Head cases complete, and the bracelets just to verify any difference in content. One correction i would like to make is i thought only 67-9054's had metal movement holders. I was wrong about that. Some Bulls have them too and it reflects in the weight ratings. Here is the results.

V's case complete- 68.1 grams-metal movement holder
My case complete-64.2 grams-plastic movement holder
V's NOS complete-67 grams-metal movement holder
V's original bracelet w/original Citizen raised logo clasp-45.5 grams
My aftermarket Citizen jubilee from over seas-30.8 grams
V's NOS bracelet repo and Citizen non raised logo clasp-44.0

 

[31 Jewels]

.

One of the hardest things to do on any chronograph is get the seconds recorder and minute recorder indexed exact. Aside from making sure that all couple hundred parts are exactly put back in there perspective places and oiled and greased correctly. The 8110a does not have a flat spot on the hearts and makes for a difficult hand indexing. Especially the seconds recorder hand. It has to be exact for one, and since i am a type "a" watchmaker, i want a "zero" reset. This part of the job is where i find damage to the hands and dials on a lot of chronographs that come to my shop. Especially the hand tubes. So many times i find split hand tubes because they were pressed on to far. Once the tube splits, it never stays tight on the pivot. Dial damage always caused by the botchmaker before me because he couldnt get the hands indexed correctly and had to keep taking them off. Pics 1 and 2 are of V's Bull ready for the bezel and crystal. Mine in the last pic ready for its polished bezel and crystal. I chose the black with blue sub dials for my Bull. Its true you get what you pay for and have to say, the aftermarket dials arent close to the quality of the originals. The paint on the dial is "super thin" and the numbers on the tachymeter area are not as crisp as the originals. You can spot an aftermarket one right away just by observeing the letter size of the word "Tachymeter." Plus what Morris Minor has mentioned in this thread concerning original dials and there colors from the factory. Mine showed up to the shop with the Citizen Logo falling off right in the package. I had to re fasten it to the dial. For $20 bucks though, its tough to beat. You can have any color you want if your original dial has seen better days. 31

 

[31 Jewels]

It's time to precision time V's Bull. When it arrived at my shop it was about 2 minutes a day fast. To me, thats not nearly good enough. I have read in different forums and including this one that some guys just keep adjusting their watches untill they ball park them. I would say maybe so, but i can assure you that the beat error is off and its still not in the realm of right. Precision timing can only be done with a timing machine. If you really want accuracy, this is where it counts. As you can see in pic 1...... 0.1 MS beat error. After about 35 minutes of fine adjusting, V's came in around 8 seconds a day positionally. Pic 2 shows a pristine, proffesionally serviced and precision timed 8110a chronograph. 31

 

[Morris Minor]

Looks superb 31j and very impressive timekeeping too! Great thread.


Stephen

 

[31 Jewels]

Stephen, thank you always for your reply! I have about 5-7 pics left to upload for this thread of both finished watches. My next resto thread will be a Seiko Speedtimer. I will also post a Rolex DateJust resto and service in the Rolex section of WUS too. I have another super rare Minu Stop wristwatch resto and service that i don't know where to post yet. 31

 

[DM71]

Thanks for posting this 31J. I really enjoyed reading the whole restoration process. You did some amazing work, bravo!

We need more posts like this...



Edit: and great pictures too!

 

[31 Jewels]

Daniel, thank you for your kind reply. I will post other resto and service threads. Some will be in other places here in WUS. You can click on my profile to find others like this one in the future. If my customers allow me to post their watches being restored and serviced, i will show more like V's Citizen here. Below is the last of the restoration and service pictures of these 2 Bull Heads. Enjoy! Regards, 31 Jewels

 

[31 Jewels]

This is my favorite pic of my Bull. (below) The polished bezel was extremely time consuming to restore.

Pictures of both finished Citizen Bull Heads after restoration and service. 31

 

[31 Jewels]

V's finished Citizen Bull Head for display.

The last pic is the whole Citizen 8110a family restored or serviced by me in the last few years. The two Monaco 67-9054's (rear left) were restored in the "Citizen 8110a high end thread" started by Vsansbajo here in the WUS forums. V's Bull Head front and center, and my white dialed Citizen Speedy that was featured in my "Citizen Speedy meets the Omega Speedy thread." If your a guest reading this thread, i encourage you to join the WUS forums and become a member. I can be contacted through this forum only if you are a member. Thanks to all of you for your kind replys, and to Morris Minor for his valueable information and contributions from his blog on original dials, and his effort to revive interest in all mechanical Citizen watches. Also, i would like to thank Vsansbajo for allowing me to post the restoration and service of his watch here in the WUS forum.

Regards, 31 Jewels

 

[Morris Minor]

This is a great thread 31j - I've just posted on my blog about it and linked to it. Thanks for posting such detailed and informative stuff , much appreciated,


Stephen, aka Morris Minor, aka Sweephand