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Discussion Starter #1
Just came across this sponsored post on ABTW, never posted before (lurked for ages!) but thought this warranted it.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/citizen-cal-0100-eco-drive-watch-movement/

Can't wait to see what watches they put these movements in and whether they will be more available than the chronomasters and exceeds.

Technologically speaking, this looks pretty awesome. I thought most watch companies were luke warm on developing new HAQs, let alone going down the high frequency route.

What do you lot think?
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

I love my Citizen Chronomaster. It's one of my favorite watches and I wear it almost as much as I wear my SubC. It's definitely my go to watch when I don't want to have a Rolex on display, and it's accuracy is something I can always count on. It has the A660 movement that even tracks the leap years and I only change the time when going to and from DST.

Thank you for sharing this new Citizen technology. It's quite amazing that they can produce a solar powered watch that can, on it's own and no external syncing, can boast +/-1 spy... WOW!!

As an avid user of the Chronomaster, I'm VERY interested.
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

Interested in learning more details. Wonder if battery life necessitated Eco-Drive?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I started learning about HAQs after buying a couple of inexpensive automatic watches around Christmas 2016 (Seiko SKZ211 "landshark" and a Citizen eagle 7 something-or-other off the 'bay)

While I'm happy with the watches and didn't expect much, I didnt realise how irritating it was to constantly make little adjustments when (especially with the seiko's 7s35) lost about 3-4 minutes a week. Add to that they both don't hack, and have very ordinary power reserves.

I had always worn an admittedly poor quality Mondaine quartz and just got accustomed to setting the watch and leaving it until the DST changes.

Anyway to a cut what's becoming a very long and dull story short, HAQ.watch and WUS are slowly teaching me all about these remarkable watches.

I just wish there were more on the market! I've not got a huge budget but I was saving the pennies for a sbgx091 or a Citizen, if I could find one newish on the Japanese market sites when the time came.

I don't expect them to be cheap, but if a Cal.0100 watch could be worn for decades and still be losing less time than my seiko does in a day - worth it!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Interested in learning more details. Wonder if battery life necessitated Eco-Drive?
Are megahertz frequency watches more power thirsty than thermocompensated ones?

I think i read somewhere that economic drive batteries need to replaced after a set period as they wear out, but on balance no battery changes every few years is such a good feature.
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

Wow, just saw it on ablogtowatch myself, hopefully they put it in the wrist watch ASAP because I want one unless the price will be above 1k
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

Interested in learning more details. Wonder if battery life necessitated Eco-Drive?
Likely not. For example, I have a few Citizen watches, a glorified 3 hander that has a perpetual calendar and a RC controlled chronograph. The power reserve for the 3 hander is 1 year, a comparable quartz 3 hander with perpetual calendar using a regular silver-oxide battery would likely last 3-5 years. And to get that 1 yr. life you'd have to stick the watch in the dark, which would stop the sweep second hand to conserve energy. The silver oxide powered watch would still have a ticking second hand. My guess is instead of the typical 3-5 yr. battery life common in most quartz watches these days the silver-oxide cell would yield 1-2 yrs. tops. So, with EcoDrive their routine 1-1.5yr. "reserve" would be reduced to 3-6 months. Still not shabby. Again, this is all a guess based on present technology in EcoDrive products and comparable quartz watches with throw-away batteries.

Now of course what that solar power buys you is pretty much zero maintenance or care operating the watch, never need to change batteries (so the case back doesn't have those marks anymore!!), the thing is always running. THIS is why I love the two Citizen watches I have, same for my wife. Even though she has Longines Master Collection auto and an Omega AT, her Citizen is her "go to" watch. 5 years old and never missed a beat, never needs attention. Even if this new movement is 2-3x off their spec that's damned impressive and I'd dare say Citizen's offering will hit their claimed targets. Every one of their watches in my household is easily a 5 sec/month watch so they seem to get how to trim a movement.

I do have a few questions though:

First, I wonder if they took any of the ideas they used to develop the 262kHz movements for Bulova. So far the 262kHz movements in my small collection are typically within easily under +2 sec/month, maybe they used some of that learning here.

Then there's this tidbit from the article:

Perhaps most notably, AT-cut variations allow for greater temperature tolerances, specifically in the range of -40°C to +125°C. Additionally, this configuration allows for reduced deviations caused by wearer orientation, which can cause significant changes in accuracy that aren't negligible when attempting this kind of performance. As a result, wearers will not have to worry about errors caused by spatial orientation and positioning becomes less of a concern.

Could this be why the Longines and Certina TC controlled watches don't always meet their claimed specs? I didn't know that quartz crystals had a positional variation. Interesting that it has very similar shock-protection features in the Longines VHP line. They also will likely get an extremely smooth sweep second hand since the 262kHz Bulovas can do it already, unless that costs too much energy. that's one big advantage to EcoDrive, they can eat some more power than a typical throw-away battery since you've got a power source that's "on" all the time, the light in the room. I'd also bet that Citizen will have an owner's manual to explain how to use the watch on the day they're introduced (I had to get that dig in!!). I will say their manuals are fantastic, they also put up videos on their web page for more complex watches, they are tops when it comes to documentation. Longines could take some lessons here.

What will the design look like? This is where the Swiss have it all over the Japanese. Too many of the Seiko and Citizen designs are plain UGLY. And what's this bugger going to cost? Will it be in the Grand Seiko price range or even worse, a JDM product only. I sure hope not!

This all should be very, very interesting. I can't wait to see what they'll case this movement in, I just hope it isn't an overly big/thick beast. Citizen has a massive distribution network and a good name in the market so they could put a hurt not on the on the Swiss but Seiko too IF they put out some top-flight designs.
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

Looking forward to this caliber being released. If fitted with a Perpetual Calendar it would a No Brainer to buy one of these for set and forget functionality. Changing it 2 twice a for Daylight Saving would be no problem for me.
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

While I think the difference between tuning fork and AT cut crystals may be expanded upon in another thread (possibly a stickies?), I thought it may be worth posting this from Citizen, to shed light on the matter:

Technical Guide?CITIZEN FINEDEVICE CO.,LTD.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, I'm sold. Looks like I can ditch the 4 MHz collection; it's 8 MHz all the way for me, now!
It seems to me that 8,388,608Hz is as close to double the Crystron Mega as you could get, it sounds like it could have been someone in Citizen making an (at the time) unreasonable demand to double the performance and it's taken them a while to get there.

I wouldn't sell the collection just yet 🙂 Congrats on the new Junghans
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

I'd say that with this movement Citizen might combine AT-cut MHz technology and thermocompensation technology for the optimum performance.
Both these technologies have been around for decades but until now they were not used together in a watch.
I remember that we lamented in this very forum years ago that the two technologies should be combined for the "dream HAQ watch"... so here we go.
I'd say when this two technologies are combined then proper calibration during manufacturing would eliminate the need for later digital calibration (no need for a digital calibration port on the movement even for die-hard HAQ-fans like us!).

Citizen, you did it again, well done!:-!
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

I should change my dream watches. Sorry GS, Citizen The Chronomaster with Cal. 0100 is my long term goal :D
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

There are a few interesting additional details in the Citizen web page. It confirms what the other peice hinted at - that this is not just a thermoinsensitive HF calibre but also adds in thermocompensation. It also states that Citizen have doubled the number of points at which they temperature test the crystal during manufacture. This suggests a more detailed temperature-frequency reference table for the TC circuitry to make more precise corrections.

But frankly they had me at '8 MHz'.
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

It seems to me that 8,388,608Hz is as close to double the Crystron Mega as you could get, it sounds like it could have been someone in Citizen making an (at the time) unreasonable demand to double the performance and it's taken them a while to get there.

I wouldn't sell the collection just yet 🙂 Congrats on the new Junghans
There's nothing arbitrary about 8388608Hz: it's 2^23, so can be simply divided down to 1Hz.
 

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Re: Citizen Cal.0100 Eco-drive - 8.4MHz

One second a year. Yeah, right.
That was my initial thought. But, Citizen does make good on their claims from what I've observed.

I just hope this isn't an elaborate April Fools day prank!
 
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