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Looks like a standard movement. Could come from anywhere.

I doubt tho that Ginault would violate the rules regarding their Made In the US thing. Too risky for a young company.

People who have issue with it should simply just avoid or report it, not make a big pointless stink here among enthusiasts who aren't experts.

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Let's call this a *bump*. Any commentary from someone who can, um, comment?
Here's the difficulty: as others have said, the Ginault movement looks generic. Merely printing or engraving something on the rotor or plates wouldn't prove anything, but the point is that when watchmakers build something, they tend to show some ego about it. Fancy finishing, sapphire casebacks. That sort of thing. Here, nothing.

As we all know, there's been a lot of heat around here over the Ginault's provenance. Frankly, that heat surprises me. Those who've held one I think uniformly have noted its build quality. The only questions that have been raised about it relate to claims of provenance, which is not surprising given the dearth of truly American Made watches--not just American assembled, but American built with American movements, which the Ginault claims to be. You can argue jingoism all you want; Ginault is playing off of those instincts, trying to make a buck off of them, so it's totally fair game to hold them to their claims.

Let's be clear: if Ginault claimed to be selling watches from asian factories, nobody around here would express much interest or concern over the truth of that statement, because we know that so many of watches come from asian factories. Even the Swiss Made label is getting revamped and tightened, if I have my guess because too many cheap watches were diluting the value of the label.

Made in USA and Hand Built in America are marks that are protected by law, tend to be strictly enforced, and interestingly, historically are tied to BOTH the labor movement and also those who tend to vote against the interests of the labor movement. If you're American, you know what I'm talking about; if you're not, you might be surprised at the way in which those groups intersect around patriotic issues. Ginault walked right into the middle of that heated space--knowingly or not--and it's no surprise to any American here on WUS that it's invited scrutiny.

Ginault has made some big claims in support of the sale of its watches, it's trading off those claims, and unless and until it does what so many others have done--opened its doors and let in some sunlight--it's going to take a beating and, I think, deservedly so. Thus, my surprise at the heat from those who wonder at the scrutiny. I'm not saying everybody has to care--there are larger legal, moral, and ethical issues out there--but disinterest need not translate into disdain towards those who choose to hold Ginault to the truth of its claims.

For example of what I'm talking about: Invited to tour RGM Watch Company! â€" RGM Watch Co. Here's a sample:

This tour will allow you to see this machinery in motion as he demonstrates how we recreate some of the beautiful engraved patterns characteristic of our watches. Witness firsthand how we marry old with new by observing vintage machines working in harmony with modern technology to create unique timepieces.
The tour will also provide the opportunity to view the making and finishing of watch parts and assembly of movements. We will provide our guests time to examine our timepieces. Should you decide to take advantage of this occasion to acquire one of our watches for yourself, we will be offering special show prices for that day only.
 

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Is there anything at all about the movement that doesn't look exactly like a drop in Chinese clone?
That's just it. I have plainer looking Chinese clones, and better looking Chinese clones. Levels of finishing can differ with those, just like levels of finish on the Swiss movements can and do differ.

The Chinese are perfectly capable of producing a rotor or plate finished to the same quality/appearance as a Swiss rotor or plate, and the same is true of anybody, anywhere, with the machinery to do it. To coin a phrase, it's not rocket science.

Perhaps it's time to emphasize: I didn't buy the Ginault because I especially want an American-made watch. If that was what I was after, I'd sell off a bunch of my watches and get one of those RGM 801As (if only they were 40mm!). Like many of us, I have watches from here, there, and everywhere. It personally pains me that there's a whiff of racism around this issue; as far as I'm concerned, the issue primarily concerns honesty, and secondarily concerns interest in a resurgence of American manufacturing (which has been on a downward slope for a long time now, but I'll leave debates over labor economics and globalism for another place).
 

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Is there anything at all about the movement that doesn't look exactly like a drop in Chinese clone?
Yes: the balance and shock assembly are not off-the-shelf. Could they have had a run built with this hardware and assembled in China? You bet. Did they?

Mine does not run like any Chinese-assembled movement I have ever seen. Wherever it was assembled, it was built carefully.

IMO this makes a drop-in clone unlikely.

The significant thing in the case back shot is the fact that the case has rotate-to-remove Rolex movement mounts. Appears it would accept a 3135 without a mov't ring. Make of that what you will. :-d
 

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Here's the difficulty: as others have said, the Ginault movement looks generic. Merely printing or engraving something on the rotor or plates wouldn't prove anything, but the point is that when watchmakers build something, they tend to show some ego about it. Fancy finishing, sapphire casebacks. That sort of thing. Here, nothing.

As we all know, there's been a lot of heat around here over the Ginault's provenance. Frankly, that heat surprises me. Those who've held one I think uniformly have noted its build quality. The only questions that have been raised about it relate to claims of provenance, which is not surprising given the dearth of truly American Made watches--not just American assembled, but American built with American movements, which the Ginault claims to be. You can argue jingoism all you want; Ginault is playing off of those instincts, trying to make a buck off of them, so it's totally fair game to hold them to their claims.

Let's be clear: if Ginault claimed to be selling watches from asian factories, nobody around here would express much interest or concern over the truth of that statement, because we know that so many of watches come from asian factories. Even the Swiss Made label is getting revamped and tightened, if I have my guess because too many cheap watches were diluting the value of the label.

Made in USA and Hand Built in America are marks that are protected by law, tend to be strictly enforced, and interestingly, historically are tied to BOTH the labor movement and also those who tend to vote against the interests of the labor movement. If you're American, you know what I'm talking about; if you're not, you might be surprised at the way in which those groups intersect around patriotic issues. Ginault walked right into the middle of that heated space--knowingly or not--and it's no surprise to any American here on WUS that it's invited scrutiny.

Ginault has made some big claims in support of the sale of its watches, it's trading off those claims, and unless and until it does what so many others have done--opened its doors and let in some sunlight--it's going to take a beating and, I think, deservedly so. Thus, my surprise at the heat from those who wonder at the scrutiny. I'm not saying everybody has to care--there are larger legal, moral, and ethical issues out there--but disinterest need not translate into disdain towards those who choose to hold Ginault to the truth of its claims.

For example of what I'm talking about: Invited to tour RGM Watch Company! â€" RGM Watch Co. Here's a sample:

This tour will allow you to see this machinery in motion as he demonstrates how we recreate some of the beautiful engraved patterns characteristic of our watches. Witness firsthand how we marry old with new by observing vintage machines working in harmony with modern technology to create unique timepieces.
The tour will also provide the opportunity to view the making and finishing of watch parts and assembly of movements. We will provide our guests time to examine our timepieces. Should you decide to take advantage of this occasion to acquire one of our watches for yourself, we will be offering special show prices for that day only.
So well said. I couldn't agree more.
 

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If I wanted another diver, I think I'd buy the Ginault in a second. But, to be frank, the "Made in America but maybe not" thing has actually put me off a bit. I haven't held one, but all the reviews seem to rave about the quality. I think I'd like it just as much (probably more) if they either: a. justified and verified the USA claim or b. admitted like most micros (of which I DO own quite a few) that it is actually made "in many places"...

FWIW

EDIT: Maybe what we need, now that we really have achieved a global market place, is a "MADE ON EARTH" label
 
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Wow! Awesome review! Great idea posting it in the affordable watch section. I have one on the way(shipped yesterday) and might choose to post my review here also. Members in the dive section seem to flip into full attack mode at the first sight of the word Ginault. Thank you for the direct homage comparison.
 

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I would really like to know if the movement is really American made, I think Ginault need to come clean as to who makes it. Also they need to clean up their web page they are not doing themselves any favors. The watch seems to me to be an excellent watch wherever the movement is made, but clarification is needed. Just for interest my new Tisell diver lost 3 seconds the first day, day two it lost only one second and today so far it lost nothing, so it looks like it has settled down to -1 second a day or spot on. The Swiss need to be very scared, I personally think eta stopping supplying movements to be the best thing that could have happened to the watch industry. It is forcing others to come up decent movements which they are doing, the 9015 for example is an excellent movement, some say better than the eta's 2892, whatever mine is showing to be stunningly accurate anyway.
Just my opinion, but I really think that ETA stopping the supply of movements was a massive miscalculation on their part, I really think they shot themselves in the foot, it no longer needs to be Swiss to be any good..And that is a good thing!
Chris
 

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Just to add to my last post, I really really hope that Ginault are using a mostly American made movement, not that it really matters if it is a good movement wherever it is from, but it will mean the American watch industry is getting a new lease of life if this really is being made in the USA. The next 10 years IMO are going to be very interesting for watches and movements, I think we will see more very very good Asian movements being produced that will put the cat further among the pigeons for the Swiss watch industry, I hope other counties like the USA are involved too.
Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
Gave a lot of thought to the time that's passed since Ginault posted its original thread and solicited, with the help of significant discounts, the posting of numerous "review" threads by me and other early purchasers. Significant questions abound about the provenance of the watch and honesty of the advertising claims, and those questions are being met largely with silence under circumstances where the manufacturer could readily dispel doubts. I decided to meet the manufacturer's silence with my own, so I replaced my original post and deleted all of my posts regarding this watch from all of the threads where I took the time to comment. May have missed one or two along the way, and can't delete posts that have been quoted by others, but it's the best I can do to roll back the clock.

Hopefully, the manufacturer will pull back the curtain and substantiate its claims with some sunlight. Until then, I think I'll stay quiet in the dark.
 

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Gave a lot of thought to the time that's passed since Ginault posted its original thread and solicited, with the help of significant discounts, the posting of numerous "review" threads by me and other early purchasers. Significant questions abound about the provenance of the watch and honesty of the advertising claims, and those questions are being met largely with silence under circumstances where the manufacturer could readily dispel doubts. I decided to meet the manufacturer's silence with my own, so I replaced my original post and deleted all of my posts regarding this watch from all of the threads where I took the time to comment. May have missed one or two along the way, and can't delete posts that have been quoted by others, but it's the best I can do to roll back the clock.

Hopefully, the manufacturer will pull back the curtain and substantiate its claims with some sunlight. Until then, I think I'll stay quiet in the dark.
Have asked for clarification of the companies involved in the movement?
Chris
 

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Gave a lot of thought to the time that's passed since Ginault posted its original thread and solicited, with the help of significant discounts, the posting of numerous "review" threads by me and other early purchasers. Significant questions abound about the provenance of the watch and honesty of the advertising claims, and those questions are being met largely with silence under circumstances where the manufacturer could readily dispel doubts. I decided to meet the manufacturer's silence with my own, so I replaced my original post and deleted all of my posts regarding this watch from all of the threads where I took the time to comment. May have missed one or two along the way, and can't delete posts that have been quoted by others, but it's the best I can do to roll back the clock.

Hopefully, the manufacturer will pull back the curtain and substantiate its claims with some sunlight. Until then, I think I'll stay quiet in the dark.
Quite an extreme course of action there HWA. Weren't all the doubts about provenance and the honest of the advertising already there when you bought one?

I may have missed any recent developments on this; got a little bored of all of it!
 

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Gave a lot of thought to the time that's passed since Ginault posted its original thread and solicited, with the help of significant discounts, the posting of numerous "review" threads by me and other early purchasers. Significant questions abound about the provenance of the watch and honesty of the advertising claims, and those questions are being met largely with silence under circumstances where the manufacturer could readily dispel doubts. I decided to meet the manufacturer's silence with my own, so I replaced my original post and deleted all of my posts regarding this watch from all of the threads where I took the time to comment. May have missed one or two along the way, and can't delete posts that have been quoted by others, but it's the best I can do to roll back the clock.

Hopefully, the manufacturer will pull back the curtain and substantiate its claims with some sunlight. Until then, I think I'll stay quiet in the dark.
This I do not agree with. If you review was done with no bias why do you feel the necessity to delete everything? You have voiced very strong opinions along the way, posted a review , received a discount and now decide to shrink back into your shell? Silly

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Quite an extreme course of action there HWA. Weren't all the doubts about provenance and the honest of the advertising already there when you bought one?

I may have missed any recent developments on this; got a little bored of all of it!
I think he, along with several others, have asked Ginault for clarification and haven't gotten any..... they'll answer questions pertaining to anything but the provenance all day long, and I think that's from where the frustration stems.
 

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This I do not agree with. If you review was done with no bias why do you feel the necessity to delete everything? You have voiced very strong opinions along the way, posted a review , received a discount and now decide to shrink back into your shell? Silly

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I would love to know why this company has caused so much fighting as I am interested in the watch. Here are some points that come to my mind:

1. If you did an honest review you should stand by that. You made a deal. You backed out of it, own up to it or send the watch back.
2. Having said that I do believe the company has many questions that need answering. I will post these next.
3. Owner/CEO should be on here explaining and answering questions we have.
4. Were is the manufacturing facility that makes the cases. Where are all the other components made?
5. Movement? where you sourcing it from and is it true you are assembling it yourself?
6. $1300 for a no name brand is lot. Especially if it comes out that your factories are all in China.
7. $500 normal pricing is more likely where you belong. However, you have some serious competition there like Steinhart, Cward and several more.

I own dive watches at all levels, from BP50F down to Invicta 8926. I feel that I have a good grasp of the dive watch world as many on the forums do. I will not be taken by good advertising that does not add up. I also know manufacturing and engineering. I do believe you, Ginault, know what entails the "made in the USA" banner. It is a deceiving banner when you have companies performing Maquiladora operations. I have seen these operations personally. Most of the product is manufactured outside the USA and major components assembled in the USA, giving you the ability to call it made in the USA. But when you state that the cases are machined in the USA and the movements are assembled in the USA, you have taken it to another level. That means you have manufacturing somewhere in the USA. Where is it?

I am seriously interested as I can truly compare this watch to many in my herd. But I am not about to shell out $500 for something with no real background and with so many questions that need answering. Many in here including the OP of this thread do have questions that need answering. Ginault, come on here and do full disclosure. Lets see what you got. I am certainly interested if you are truly made in the USA. I have plenty of divers don't mind a few more:
 
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