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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think this little app could solve a lot of problems for those who are out of range, or if they ever shut down the transmitters:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clock-wave/id1073576068?mt=8

Description
Clock Wave allows you calibrate radio controlled watch or clock anytime and anywhere. Just click "Transmit" button, set your watch or clock to manual receive time signal, and place it nearby your iPhone/iPad's speaker, it will be calibrated in a few minutes.

Clock Wave features:
- Covers 5 major longwave time signal stations all over the world.
* USA: WWVB
* Japan: JJY
* China: BPC
* UK: MSF
* DE: DCF77
- Automatically transmit the accurate time.

* If your radio controlled watch/clock doesn't support station BPC, select station JJY manually to use in China.
* If your radio controlled watch/clock doesn't support station MSF, select station DCF77 manually to use in UK.
* If your radio controlled watch/clock support only a specified timezone or station, (e.g. Using a radio controlled clock support only JJY station in Australia.), select the watch/clock timezone manually in app settings.
 

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That won't work for Atomic watches, which receive radio waves, not sound waves.
Uhhh...WWVB et al are the radio transmitters in question. This app is used as an alternative. That's the entire purpose of the app.


GMT: thanks for posting this! If they release an Android version, I may well get it.

EDIT: posted a link to this thread over in f9.
 

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Interesting. Atomic watches receive on 60khz and other lw frequencies. A smartphone is a transceiver. Will it broadcast on longwave?

If an audio signal is sent from the smart phone how does the atomic watch process the data.

edit: The family E.E. wonders how this is accomplished.
 

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I too am a curious electrical engineer... a 60 kHz audio source is not the same thing as a 60 kHz radio source. Unless the watches are designed to pick up audio the same way they pick up radio waves, I can't imagine this working. Or perhaps computer cards/speakers also output enough of a radio signal at high frequencies to affect the watch?

Some Googling shows other sites suggesting you use a speaker to set your watch, so perhaps they do use an audio receiver as well? Or it's just an internet hoax...
 
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Doubt it's a hoax. I think it's working because we are talking LF signals, which propagate a lot more like sound waves than higher frequency EM. And maybe there is some RF being generated; the beeping we hear in the video is NOT 60 kHz, because we can hear it.

The app creator's web site doesn't say anything about how he does it.

Found this:

http://www.jrcomputing.com.au/Set_Watch/Set_Watch_Auto.html

So it's actually an EM harmonic, apparently, created by the speaker.
 

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So it's actually an EM harmonic, apparently, created by the speaker.
I saw that site when Googling... it would imply that the speaker is generating RF. I don't know audio equipment well enough to have any idea if that's possible. Perhaps someone else does?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think this is entirely possible. The WWVB signal is very slow, and transmitted at 1 bit / second, about as low-tech as you can get. It takes 1 minute to receive the entire time-encoded signal. The original WWVB signal resides at 60khz, being lower than your local AM band won't carry very far. For this reason, carrier frequencies of 5, 10, 15 and 20 MHz are used to extend the useful range over much longer distances. You can tune these at night on a shortwave radio and hear the time encoded signal with some voice cues. Your watch has the circuitry to pickup and decode the baseline 60khz signal, which is found only as a harmonic since 60 kHz cannot survive long distance transmission. I can see someone testing and trying out various audio tones that produce the correct harmonic frequencies to trigger a response from the circuitry.

My concern would be the magnetic fields produced by the speakers might have an affect of magnetizing analog hands, not an issue if you have digital watch.
 

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Uhhh...WWVB et al are the radio transmitters in question. This app is used as an alternative. That's the entire purpose of the app.


GMT: thanks for posting this! If they release an Android version, I may well get it.

EDIT: posted a link to this thread over in f9.
iPhones do not transmit at any frequency that an atomic watch receives.
 

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Your watch has the circuitry to pickup and decode the baseline 60khz signal, which is found only as a harmonic since 60 kHz cannot survive long distance transmission. I can see someone testing and trying out various audio tones that produce the correct harmonic frequencies to trigger a response from the circuitry.
I'll say it again - 60 kHz of sound is NOT the same as a 60 kHz radio wave.

Sound is a vibration of the air, and the radio signal is transmission of electromagnetic energy - they're entirely different. Unless a speaker vibrating at 60 kHz to make the 60 kHz sound ALSO puts out a 60 kHz radio signal, the watch can't pick it up with the radio tuner in it.

A radio tuner reacting to sound would be like saying you can somehow hear (audio tuning) with your eyes (electromagnetic wave detectors).

Now if there is audio circuitry in the watch meant to supplement the radio tuner, then it could possibly work. But that's what I doubt.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ok guys, I had to try, and I can confirm it works! I live on the west coast of US, I set my local timezone to Tokyo, and placed my watch near the window to confirm I could not receive the JJY signal from Japan.... no chance, I can't even receive WWVB this time of day! JJY and WWVB are completely different signal formats, not interchangeable. Then I ran "Clock Wave" on my iPad, and I changed my default signal from WWVB to JJY, and after a couple minutes, receive was successful!

Then I switch it back to WWVB, this time I re-set my local time incorrectly, just to make sure, then after a few minutes, the correct time as set, and again, receive successful!



Now my theory might not hold water, but I can't see how else this could work; the correct sound harmonic is eliciting a response from the receiver in my watch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This reminds me of the days when you could wait for the dial tone on a rotary phone and click the button in rapid succession to dial a number! Now the only question I have, could the watch's receiving circuitry be damaged in any way by doing it this way?
 

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Remember the old days when your speakers would crackle when the phone was about the ring? Maybe it's the same thing.
 

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I think this little app could solve a lot of problems for those who are out of range, or if they ever shut down the transmitters:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clock-wave/id1073576068?mt=8

Description
Clock Wave allows you calibrate radio controlled watch or clock anytime and anywhere. Just click "Transmit" button, set your watch or clock to manual receive time signal, and place it nearby your iPhone/iPad's speaker, it will be calibrated in a few minutes.

Clock Wave features:
- Covers 5 major longwave time signal stations all over the world.
* USA: WWVB
* Japan: JJY
* China: BPC
* UK: MSF
* DE: DCF77
- Automatically transmit the accurate time.

* If your radio controlled watch/clock doesn't support station BPC, select station JJY manually to use in China.
* If your radio controlled watch/clock doesn't support station MSF, select station DCF77 manually to use in UK.
* If your radio controlled watch/clock support only a specified timezone or station, (e.g. Using a radio controlled clock support only JJY station in Australia.), select the watch/clock timezone manually in app settings.
My guess...

Read this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...le-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/

"Ultrasonic"

Frank
 
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I think this little app could solve a lot of problems for those who are out of range, or if they ever shut down the transmitters:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clock-wave/id1073576068?mt=8

Description
Clock Wave allows you calibrate radio controlled watch or clock anytime and anywhere. Just click "Transmit" button, set your watch or clock to manual receive time signal, and place it nearby your iPhone/iPad's speaker, it will be calibrated in a few minutes.

Clock Wave features:
- Covers 5 major longwave time signal stations all over the world.
* USA: WWVB
* Japan: JJY
* China: BPC
* UK: MSF
* DE: DCF77
- Automatically transmit the accurate time.

* If your radio controlled watch/clock doesn't support station BPC, select station JJY manually to use in China.
* If your radio controlled watch/clock doesn't support station MSF, select station DCF77 manually to use in UK.
* If your radio controlled watch/clock support only a specified timezone or station, (e.g. Using a radio controlled clock support only JJY station in Australia.), select the watch/clock timezone manually in app settings.
My guess...

Read this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...le-sound-to-link-your-phone-tv-tablet-and-pc/

"Ultrasonic"

Frank
 

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That's different... that involves devices creating sound waves, and then other devices listening and using those sound waves. That makes sense as all of those devices have audio transmitters (speakers) and receivers (microphones).

In this case we're talking about a watch designed to receive a radio signal, and use it to set the watch. And apparently you can given it a sound signal, and it will still set the watch. The leaves three possibilities in my mind (there may be more, but this is what comes to mind) :

-- The watch is also designed to receive sound in addition to radio
-- The speaker generating the sound also emits a radio signal at the same frequency
-- The watch converts the usual radio into sound internally normally anyway, and that can be spoofed by creating the right sound
 
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ok guys, I had to try, and I can confirm it works! I live on the west coast of US, I set my local timezone to Tokyo, and placed my watch near the window to confirm I could not receive the JJY signal from Japan.... no chance, I can't even receive WWVB this time of day! JJY and WWVB are completely different signal formats, not interchangeable. Then I ran "Clock Wave" on my iPad, and I changed my default signal from WWVB to JJY, and after a couple minutes, receive was successful!

Then I switch it back to WWVB, this time I re-set my local time incorrectly, just to make sure, then after a few minutes, the correct time as set, and again, receive successful!

Now my theory might not hold water, but I can't see how else this could work; the correct sound harmonic is eliciting a response from the receiver in my watch.
Has anyone else confirmed this to work?
 

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I think that the speakers are useless because the true transmission of the signal is because of the wires which, crossed by electric pulses, also generates magnetic field variations. The point maybe is how intense they are and how far they are able to travel around space. That is why, as far as I can see, the wires seems to be put in circle and surround the watch to make sure it works.

If it really works, it is a good workaround. However if the radio reception in the place we live is poor, I should go for a TC or even for a bluetooth watch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That won't work for Atomic watches, which receive radio waves, not sound waves.
This could actually be it! Another theory... the designers needed a fast way of testing the module and they couldn't wait for the real WWVB or JJR signal to come around, so have it respond to a specific audio in addition to the real signal!
 

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This could actually be it! Another theory... the designers needed a fast way of testing the module and they couldn't wait for the real WWVB or JJR signal to come around, so have it respond to a specific audio in addition to the real signal!
That makes sense actually.
 
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