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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been looking seriously at the Ball watch lineup but became pretty frustrated by their opaque calibre numbering scheme. Not only do they not list which calibre corresponds to which ebauche, they changed the numbering scheme so old references (including right here in the Watchuseek Ball forum) are less than helpful.

I put a bit of time and energy into it and think I've come up with a complete (!) cross-reference for all current and former Ball movements. All of this comes from Internet research, so I welcome feedback!

To facilitate updates, I put this whole reference over at the Watches Wiki: Ball Watch Company - Watch Wiki, The Best Watches And Watch Brands

Without further ado, I give you the complete Ball movement cross-reference!

MovementFormer NameBase EbaucheFeatures
RR1101ETA 2892-A2Automatic, 3 hands, date
RR1102ETA 2836-2Automatic, 3 hands, day, date
RR1102CETA 2836-2Automatic, 3 hands, day, date, COSC
RR1103ETA 2824-2Automatic, 3 hands, date
RR1104ETA 2671Automatic, 3 hands, date at 3, ladies
RR1105ETA 2895Automatic, 2 hands, small seconds, date
RR1106ETA 2824-2Automatic, 3 hands, date
RR1201ETA 2893-2Automatic, 4 hands, date at 3, GMT
RR1201CETA 2893-2Automatic, 4 hands, date at 3, GMT
RR1202293ETA 2893-2Automatic, 4 hands, date at 4:30, UTC 24-hour, GMT, date change warning indicator
RR13013513 or 651ETA 2892-A2 with a module for second timezoneAutomatic, 3 hands, big date at 12, second timezone with hour and minute hands
RR1302Automatic, 3 hands, date, second timezone, power reserve
RR14012050Valjoux 7750Automatic, date at 12, 2-register chronograph
RR1401SL2050Valjoux 7750Automatic, date at 12, 2-register chronograph, SpringLock protection
RR1402CValjoux 7750Automatic, date at 3, 3-register chronograph
RR1403350ETA 7750Automatic, single-button 2-register chronograph, month, day, date
RR1404Valjoux 7754Automatic, 2-hand, sub seconds, chronograph, GMT
RR1405351ETA 7750Automatic, 2-register chronograph, month, day, date
RR1406Valjoux 7751Automatic, 2-register chronograph, 24-hour indication, moon phase, pointer day with day and month
RR1407969modified Valjoux 7750Automatic, single-button chronograph with separate second register, day, date
RR1501965ETA 2836-2Automatic, 3-hand world time, day, date
RR1502352modified Valjoux 7750Automatic, 3-register chronograph, world time, day and date at 3
RR16019018ETA 2892Automatic, 3-hand, date at 1, thermometer (F or C); -40° temperature endurance + mechanical thermometer that ranges from -35 to 45°C
RR17013513perhaps ETA 2826 Big Date modified by Soprod for power meterAutomatic, 3-hand, big date at 12, power meter
RR1702ETA 2897Automatic, 3-hand, date, power meter
RR1801968ETA 2836Central Moon Phase
RR2101ETA 7001Manual, 2-hand, small seconds
RR2701ETA 7001Manual, 2-hand, small seconds, power meter
Old Names


  • 124 - The Night Train movement, UMT + Date warning system, base ETA 2824, used on the Fireman series
  • 197 - Linear Power Reserve, base ETA 2897, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 250 - Single-button Chronograph, base ETA 7750, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 293 (now RR1202) - UMT, dual 12 hour hands + Date warning system, base ETA 2893, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 350 (now RR1403) - Single-button Chronograph + Linear Triple Date, base ETA 7750, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 351 (now RR1405) - Chronograph + Linear Triple Date, base ETA 7750, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 651 (now RR1301) - Dual Time and Big Date, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 968 (now RR1801) - Central Moon Phase, base ETA 2836, used on the Engineer Master series
  • 2050 (now RR1401) - The Cannonball Movement, 45-minute chronograph with 2 subdials and date at 12 o'clock, base ETA 2824, used on the Trainmaster series
  • 9018 (now RR1601) - "TMT movement" base ETA 2892, -40° temperature endurance + mechanical thermometer that ranges from -35 to 45°C
  • 9035 - GMT Power Reserve used on the Trainmaster & Conductor series(sold out), 48 hours power reserve

Cheers!
 

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Excellent........was much needed, thanks!
 

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Great! Lots of detective work here and much appreciated. I do believe, though, there is a typo on Ball 1201/1201C showing it as a 6498 which is a hand wound movement. I think it should be a variant of the 2893. Noticed because I just bought a Red Label GMT and inquired as to the ETA base movement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Nice work!
I have not compared yours to the one Samanator posted a couple of months ago, but it would be a good exercise to make sure that they agree. It is in the reference section at this link...
https://www.watchuseek.com/f255/2013-ball-caliber-matrix-926075.html
Samanator's Matrix was actually my first source. I really appreciate him pulling all that information together, since the new names were not well documented outside of Ball's website. However, the missing link was a connection to the old names of the movements as well as the original manufacturer. This is the key addition that I have made: I tried to match up, by watch, the old and new movement names as well as, by feature, the original ETA movements.

As noted, I have likely made a few mistakes and I will attempt to fix them as quickly as possible. I appreciate any corrections people can provide!


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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Great! Lots of detective work here and much appreciated. I do believe, though, there is a typo on Ball 1201/1201C showing it as a 6498 which is a hand wound movement. I think it should be a variant of the 2893. Noticed because I just bought a Red Label GMT and inquired as to the ETA base movement.
I believe you are correct. I think this is a copy and paste error on my part! I will fix it as soon as possible. It doesn't make any sense that it would be a 6498, and a 2893 fits the size and functions.


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Samanator's Matrix was actually my first source. I really appreciate him pulling all that information together, since the new names were not well documented outside of Ball's website. However, the missing link was a connection to the old names of the movements as well as the original manufacturer. This is the key addition that I have made: I tried to match up, by watch, the old and new movement names as well as, by feature, the original ETA movements.

As noted, I have likely made a few mistakes and I will attempt to fix them as quickly as possible. I appreciate any corrections people can provide!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Nice effort. I'll note we're still waiting on a statement from Ball regarding the movements. Since I don't know what that is I held off from including past references on purpose. S
 

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Nice effort. I'll note we're still waiting on a statement from Ball regarding the movements. Since I don't know what that is I held off from including past references on purpose. S
Good point.

That's why I tried to pull together what could be gleaned from less official sources. Much of the ETA source info actually came from the web site of a Ball AD, actually, so that's semi-official at least.
 

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Movements are in great flux in the industry at the moment. With the most recent ETA ruling we know those will go. Ball also does more modifications to movements so ETA references for many are not really applicable. Ball has done quite a bit of field testing of SpringLOCK and this is something above a standard ETA. We also know the in-house is coming at some point. I assume Ball would want to use out inventory of existing movements. Note that Ball always documents new movements when released in the past look at the EMII World Time which the day date was unique to Ball. So I see no reason we will not get the announcement from Ball. As far as in-house the other 70 % of my collection is comprised of in-house only brands , which I can't wait for the day that includes Ball. I don't view anything as safe. A Rolex is probably the easiest watch to get serviced anywhere in the world so I really don't see the value of your point. I've paid the same amount to have my Rolex serviced as I have anything with an ETA. Today and five years from today the landscape will have completely changed and ETA will be 100% in-house Swatch Group. You probably will not like the pricing and availability of parts so much then. Note that The president of Oris is one that is making the most noise with the Swatch ruling and they use both ETA and other manufacturers in their watches. The issue right now is virtually none of the other sources can make main springs, and those that can could not ramp up to the demand. So it could come to in-house or die. Some have sat on their thumbs, while other worked on their own. Time will tell what was the best move.
 
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Thank you Michael. I had missed the fact that a ruling finally come down. So, as I understand it, ETA will be selling a declining number of movements to non-Swatch companies until they are relieved of the obligation in 2020. But, it seems that Swatch will still have to continue selling escapements until alternative sources are developed. I wonder if ETA will be willing/obligated to sell replacement parts after 2020? If not, that could really affect maintenance and repair of watches from non-Swatch brands unless the smaller movement manufacturers also can fill this need.
 

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Note that the ruling does not REQUIRE ETA to sell less to their competitors, just allows it. To me, it seems the business decision here is simple - use as much of ETAs production capability as possible for in house brands, and then sell the remaining production to your friends. Not using a production facility to its full capacity is a bad business decision, regardless your motives to "strengthen the Swiss watch industry".

The question is simply "how good of friends are Ball and ETA" and where do they rank on that list of potential customers?
 

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Thanks for your hard work! I'm new to Ball (and fairly new to quality watches in general) so I hope you'll humour me with a question. I just purchased my first Ball, a Fireman Racer Classic, and was trying to figure out the movement. Your list in this thread states it's an ETA 2824-2, while the list you put on Watch Wiki states it's an ETA 2895. Am I missing something here, or are these equivalent?

Thanks for your patience!
Scott
(Eagerly awaiting my Ball!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for your hard work! I'm new to Ball (and fairly new to quality watches in general) so I hope you'll humour me with a question. I just purchased my first Ball, a Fireman Racer Classic, and was trying to figure out the movement. Your list in this thread states it's an ETA 2824-2, while the list you put on Watch Wiki states it's an ETA 2895. Am I missing something here, or are these equivalent?

Thanks for your patience!
Scott
(Eagerly awaiting my Ball!)
Congratulations! That's a beautiful watch. I really love the "Star Destroyer" hour markers! I would definitely consider that myself since it has such a nice dressy look.

That uses the RR1103 movement, which I believe is an ETA 2895 movement. Since the Ball web site says it is simply a "Swiss made mechanical movement" we can assume it's a stock movement inside. Those that they modify say "Swiss made mechanical movement with BALL in-house modification" on the web site.

The 2895 is a strong movement with a solid reputation and excellent reliability and repairability. It's a modification of the ETA 2892 with a small sweep second complication. I have a watch with a 2892 myself and am very happy with it!

Congratulations, and I hope you enjoy the watch!
 

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Watch wiki had the rr1102 as a eta2892 variant. Can anyone confirm? The list has it as a 2836. Just wanted to check as I am interested in getting a 2892 variant and will play a huge factor in my choice. Thanks!
 

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Watch wiki had the rr1102 as a eta2892 variant. Can anyone confirm? The list has it as a 2836. Just wanted to check as I am interested in getting a 2892 variant and will play a huge factor in my choice. Thanks!
I see some errors in this table so I would not trust it. Looking at the watches before Ball went to the new numbering I believe the 1102 is a 2892. I'll try and check with Ball.
 

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Any chance to include optimum direction setting on a watch winder, ie, clockwise, counterclockwise or dual direction winding for each movement?
thanks
 
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